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Author Topic: 1.8T boost and load below requested  (Read 4992 times)
cmr18t
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« on: November 03, 2021, 12:56:38 AM »

Hey everyone! Total novice here. Just completed a lot of work on this motor (carbon removal, injector refurb, o2, intercooler install, downpipe install, etc...) and now it's time to tune for all of it.

First, details:
03 Jetta Wolfsburg Edition 1.8T AWP on Maestro
Stock injectors and turbo
42DD 3" downpipe with cat, stock catback
Darkside Developments FMIC
SAI, EVAP, N249 deletes
Forge 008 DV
ECS cold air intake
91oct is the best commonly available fuel here

I'm currently running as close to a stock tune as possible (except power enrichment) as I couldn't revert back to true stock. (eurodyne is dogshit. learn from me, don't make that mistake)

Here's the issue: I am seeing both load and boost considerably under requested.

I've started by increasing Boost PID (KFLDIMX) to try and correct for the underboost/underload. I'm starting to get to the point where it feels like I'm needing quite a lot of WG just to make stock boost at ~12psi. I have also started modifying Alpha N (KFMSNWDK) and Throttle angle vs Airflow (KFWDKMSN) to account for the increased flow from the downpipe.

Here's what I know:
I am fairly confident there are no boost leaks (all boost piping is new)
Wastegate actuator moves freely
DV is not sticking
Downpipe/cat is not restricted

I have attached 3 logs. They are rather large and from full drives, so I have copied out the WOT pull from each and posted these as separate files as well.

Any thoughts? Am I on the right track with this? Thanks for helping a newbie Smiley
« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 01:18:18 AM by cmr18t » Logged
cmr18t
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2021, 01:20:17 AM »

Files here cuz I can't post them from an edit. Full logs are too big, I uploaded them here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KqL8CPztQtoO4anQJJ3RpDI6A1ivW4qX?usp=sharing
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aef
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2021, 01:57:53 AM »

What is the whole story?

Did it run with more boost before you did this or that?
Just bought the car?
Touched the wastegate?

Would recommend to pressure test the whole system. Disconnect Silicone on the Turbo and pressure test from there into the combustion camber with 30psi.
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fknbrkn
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mk4 1.8T AUM


« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2021, 02:05:27 AM »

Quote
I've started by increasing Boost PID (KFLDIMX) to try and correct for the underboost/underload. I'm starting to get to the point where it feels like I'm needing quite a lot of WG just to make stock boost at ~12psi. I have also started modifying Alpha N (KFMSNWDK) and Throttle angle vs Airflow (KFWDKMSN) to account for the increased flow from the downpipe.

Get it back to stock
Its a hw issue (probably from dv or wg)
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cmr18t
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2021, 12:14:20 PM »

What is the whole story?

Did it run with more boost before you did this or that?
Just bought the car?
Touched the wastegate?

Would recommend to pressure test the whole system. Disconnect Silicone on the Turbo and pressure test from there into the combustion camber with 30psi.

Got the car about a year ago. It had a lot of issues and it took a lot of time to find and fix them all so it's ready for tuning. Had a fiasco with eurodyne, so my original read from the stock ECU is not usable. Customer support was unable to help and told me to "just run the stage 1 file as it's made for stock hardware". I have adapted that file as close to a stock bin as possible with the maps available to edit as my starting point.

Notable repairs on the engine include:
Full timing job including water pump and thermostat
Replacing valve cover gasket (victor reinz)
Replacing turbo to exhaust mani gasket (genuine)
Replacing crank position sensor (genuine)
Replacing cam position sensor (bosch)
Replacing PCV & PRV (034 motorsports)
Replacing engine mounts (034 left/right, ECS poly dogbone)
Replacing knock sensors (bosch)
Replacing wideband o2 sensor (bosch)
Replacing cat
Replacing intercooler as it had a hole in it
Carbon removal from cylinders as engine was detonating and pulling severe timing (used Carbon X)
New hardware was always used where required and torqued as per service manual.
I've probably missed a few, but that's the important stuff.

I have seen it make full boost/load previously. (Maybe ~5-6 months ago?) This was before I was able to fix/subdue the detonation issue this motor had, so I rarely went WOT. I don't have many logs from this time that show this unfortunately.

I am 100% sure the wastegate is untouched.

I'll rig something up for a leak test. I had it in a shop recently where they tested it and told me it was good. They weren't able to get much pressure in it though as they were using a smoke machine. I'll definitely get that done properly.

Get it back to stock
Its a hw issue (probably from dv or wg)

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I've removed and inspected the DV and it seems to work properly. It has the correct spring in it as well (Green 5-15 psi according to Forge). I've got a file as close to stock as I can get it in Maestro. (see above for why I can't do true stock) I'll put that file on and post a log with that. I also have the stock DV. I can put that on and try it as well.
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cmr18t
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2021, 10:24:12 PM »

Flashed back to the stock map I started with and did a log. Maps in this file are direct copies from a 06A906032HS bin (except for power enrichment). Attached the trimmed WOT log and tune. Full log and screenshots of maps are here because it won't let me attach them for some reason. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_L2muikN26B0Qws95q-yTyelH6Zqyt--?usp=sharing

Just filled up and looks like I got a bad tank of gas. It's knocking a bit much. :/
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aef
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2021, 02:37:41 AM »

I dont know much about maestro but can you use nefmoto and just flash a stock file?
Log the car stock. Log the car with base pressure (n75 disconnected).

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cmr18t
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2021, 12:21:17 PM »

From the little reading I've done it looks like it should be ok to flash over it. I'm just weary of messing something up as it's been previously flashed with eurodyne. I definitely want to get a galletto before I do that, just in case. I also need to read up on flashing with nefmoto as I haven't needed to previously.

This ECU was originally a 06A906032LP. When I flashed it with eurodyne it changed to a 06A906032HS. I'm inclined to reflash using a stock HS bin, as the defs I have found for it are much better than the LP. Thoughts? Is this safe?

EDIT:
Got nefmoto flasher connected and attempted a read. It failed with "Request upload from ECU failed, ECU reports service is not supported. Request upload may have been disabled by aftermarket engine software" Lame, but fully expected that.

I read this thread about flashing the ECU with a different firmware http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=14585.0title= I saw the section about needing potential IMMO "adaption". I would like to keep IMMO working if possible. I'm planning to use the bin from this post: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1218.0 Luckily it has the EEPROM attached as well, and it shows that this car was IMMO 3, which my car is as well. So should it just work without issue as EEPROM is not touched when flashing? Can anyone confirm/tell me how to confirm this?

I REALLY want this to go smoothly the first time as I need to drive this car twice a week.

Should I also attempt an EEPROM read/backup (via OBD using me7-eeprom)?
Is there any (elevated) risk for breaking anything when reading eeprom on a ECU with aftermarket chip, especially one that has read disabled?
Any general tips in this situation? Things I should do? Useful links I might not have read?

Thanks a ton! Trying to cover all my bases here Smiley

btw, trying to decide between galletto 1260 and mpps for bootmode flashing, any recommendations?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 09:07:10 PM by cmr18t » Logged
cmr18t
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2021, 09:38:59 PM »

Here's N75 disconnected
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aef
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2021, 03:09:28 AM »

You can modify the galletto exe to work with your dumb ftdi cable.
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3088.0

Boot up your ecu on the table, read the eeprom at first.
Read the flash with galletto in boot mode.

Check your immo status with vcds while in the car.

Flash a stock file using galletto boot mode. Try the ecu in the car.
If the stock file matches your hardware create the stock logs.

Try if nefmoto works while in the car.

come back to this thread  Wink
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cmr18t
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2021, 01:55:00 AM »

Alright, first things first. Got a proper boost leak test done. ECU has NOT been flashed. I'll do it if I absolutely have to, but only as a last resort given the risk trying to mess with an aftermarket tune. Who knows what they've messed with.

I could not reliably pressure test from the turbo outlet silicone as the n75 was letting the pressure out into the TIP. The pressure gauge on the bike pump I was using did not show any pressure when this was happening. I did not attempt to use the compressor here as I would need to make another tester. Is it correct that the n75 *should NOT* leak into the TIP from the boost side when off/0% wgdc?

To get around this, I blocked the hole for the PRV on the TIP and pressure tested through the MAF hole with a compressor instead of a bike pump. Pressurized to 30 psi and found 11 leaks. Fixed all and now leak free as far as I can tell with a good ear and soapy water.

It improved, but not nearly as much as I anticipated considering how much it leaked:
  • My partial LTFT went from +3.65% to +2.45%.
  • No change in LTFT atfer driving more
  • My n75 unplugged WOT peak boost went from 3.79 psi to 4.25 psi.
  • My n75 plugged WOT seems within margin of error, except for a slight increase >5600rpm.
Aside from this, I have not seen or felt considerable difference before and after fixing the leaks.

I have 3 logs attached:
  • 1 - After fixing leaks found with bike pump
  • 2 - After fixing leaks found with compressor (most of them)
  • 3 - Another section from log 2 that shows an acceleration up a steep hill from a stop. I find this shows a lot as it spends a long time in the 90-105% range.

When I look at the n75 unplugged logs, I see the boost build to a peak around 2400 rpm and steadily drop to near 0 at redline.
Wouldn't I expect to see the boost hold a constant pressure to redline instead of declining?
Could this be a result of the wastegate/n75 being connected to pre-ic piping instead of post-ic piping?

Any overall thoughts now that I have a leak free system?

I'm hesitant to outright blame n75 as it doesn't hold ~5psi on wastegate. However, I don't think it should be leaking into TIP regardless. Thoughts about this? Is it normal to see the wg pressure taper to 0 during run with n75 unplugged on ko3s?

On a side note, MAF is also worth considering. It seems fine, but it is the original from 2003.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 06:03:27 PM by cmr18t » Logged
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