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Author Topic: CAN message generated from paddles?  (Read 10501 times)
prj
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2021, 03:16:01 AM »

Your assumption that the newer mechatronic units would have different inputs is flat out wrong.
When DQ250 a Cxx mechatronic unit goes bad it is always replaced by a Fxx unit, because Cxx are out of production for a long time. Has been like that for ten years or more.
Same for DL501 with Gen1 vs Gen2, if a Gen1 is bad it is replaced with a Gen2.

There is also a replacement software for every single Cxx unit ever made.

So if you wire it up as per the R32 and then flash the R32 software into it, then it will read the analog in.
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elRey
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2021, 06:50:29 AM »

I appreciate the correction an additional option. However, I’d prefer the CAN bus route. The wheel is LIN bus. I don’t have an analog wheel. Nor have I yet acquired the means/knowledge to read/write mechatronics. I’m very close to finishing with CAN bus.

I need to stop ECU from sending 0x38A msg, but I don’t have the address for CW_CANs.

Another assumption that I might have wrong is that my dsg actual uses 0x38A for paddles.

Also, I don't understand why the J527 does not send 0x38A itself (on the bench). Does it need to see the dsg on the bus before it sends 0x38A? First things first, disable ECU sending 0x38A. Then maybe the J527 will start sending. If not, then I'll try adding dsg to bench CAN bus. If still no 0x38A from J527, I'll add my CAN node.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 09:52:56 AM by elRey » Logged
terok
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2021, 02:45:31 PM »

Gateway sends 0x38A, not ECU or steering column unit.
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elRey
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2021, 04:35:20 PM »

Gateway sends 0x38A, not ECU or steering column unit.

ME7.5 032 HF

Quote
FDEF GGCGRA 1.20 Function definition

The GRA operating lever signals are recorded either via HW signals or CAN. from PROKON: CWGRABH (bit 0) = B_gracan
     false: Signals are recorded via HW and must be sent via CAN
     true: Signals are received by the CAN

To activate the CAN, bit 3 must be set in CW_CAN_S.
  It is then decided via B_gracan whether the message should be sent or received.
The same applies to the old GRA message if SY_CAN_CONFIG = 5, 10 or 11.

And the msg itself ,byte 3 bit 2-3, states the source:

Quote
COD_SND: Sender coding
Bit addr. 18, bit num. 2, initial value 0
00 On-board power supply control unit
01 steering column module
10 engine SG
11 not used
RCOS message: mrmGRA

I cofirmed on the bench that ECU was sending 0x38A (only ECU on bus). Once I changed CW_CAN_S.3 (found it), ECU stopped. No 0x38A msgs.   Now with mk4 Cluster, mk4 gateway, mk4 ecu, and 8p a3 steering wheel on bus and confirmed steering wheel sending 0x289 on slow bus, but no 0x38A on fast bus.

As for steering wheel vs gateway sending 0x38A (once ecu is configured correctly), do you happen to have any documentation stating gateway is the source?

Thanks,
Rey
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 05:10:10 PM by elRey » Logged
terok
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2021, 06:09:39 AM »

Ok i was incorrect. I didin't bother to check FR, but it makes sense on older cars to ECU to send this because there is no steering column unit, nor BCM.
8P A3 (and G5) for example is different. Gateway relays this packet from convenience-CAN to drivetrain-CAN (among many other things).

I have never sniffed what mk4 gateway does, but mk5 works like this.
All CAN versions above 4.0 support this (CANVERS >= 0x9).
Drivertrain-CAN is indeed available on J527, but maybe it is only for steering angle sensor (id 0x0C2).
Are there any coding or adaptation options in J527 (or mk4 gateway) that you could experiment with?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 06:37:10 AM by terok » Logged
Dave9n3
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2021, 11:47:06 AM »

CW_CAN_R_0___A = 132AC
CW_CAN_R_1___A = 132AE
CW_CAN_R_2___A = 132B0
CW_CAN_R_3___A = 132B2

CW_CAN_S_0___A = 132B4
CW_CAN_S_1___A = 132B6
CW_CAN_S_2___A = 132B8
CW_CAN_S_3___A = 132BA

Those are the addresses I have for 032HF SW0004. Not tested, but might be of some use to you.
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Dave9n3
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« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2021, 02:51:18 PM »

Your assumption that the newer mechatronic units would have different inputs is flat out wrong.
When DQ250 a Cxx mechatronic unit goes bad it is always replaced by a Fxx unit, because Cxx are out of production for a long time. Has been like that for ten years or more.
Same for DL501 with Gen1 vs Gen2, if a Gen1 is bad it is replaced with a Gen2.

There is also a replacement software for every single Cxx unit ever made.

So if you wire it up as per the R32 and then flash the R32 software into it, then it will read the analog in.

Please forgive my ignorance - but if for example I buy a CXX from a MKV gti, and flash it with the R32 DSG software, the only thing that I would need to change then would be the gear ratio maps, as a bare minimum?
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prj
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« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2021, 12:35:18 PM »

Please forgive my ignorance - but if for example I buy a CXX from a MKV gti, and flash it with the R32 DSG software, the only thing that I would need to change then would be the gear ratio maps, as a bare minimum?
Why would you want a Cxx DSG unit? Those mechatronic units are failure prone. Buy a Exx or Fxx unit (they are the same), find one with the gear ratios you like etc. There's R32 software that goes into a Fxx unit, because if you need a new mechatronic unit for an R32 nobody in the last 10+ years would have sold you a Cxx new, they had a very short production run.
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tao13
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2022, 01:02:07 PM »

I confirm too what elRey said.
Ecu send 0x38A DLC: 4! I tried with CAN_R , CWKONFZ1 , CWGC, nothing change.
BUT BUT, good news today i tried with CAN_S and ....038a....not appear!
I search a lin to can convertor but no luck.
Only what i found is a lin to uart , but lin protocol is hard to find too.
We can not put the steering wheel ring and controler on our mk4 platform because must add a can gateway and all others arms witch works different like ours with other confort controller.
I thinked to send the same canbus message like dsg knobs send on + and - but if you look in cxx file , you will see paddles had some specific maps so the dsg waiti other messages from paddles(j527 , bla bla bla) than knob + and - messages! And i think this can be confirmed again because cars with dq250 have or not paddles and steering wheel ring must coded different.
The easy way is to send on canbus the message. For the moment i don;t have the steering wheel ring and controler , but i ordered to try to sniffer it.
elRey are you sure what dsg waiting is 0x38A for paddels?

Other model of GRA, but i think this is for me7.5 witch work with old cxx model, we must see if the new cxx model (not analogic input from paddles) from golf 5 , passat b6 had the same structure.
[START_MSG] GRA_Neu,906,4,20,1,S,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Checksum,8,1,0,U,255,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Hauptschalt,1,2,0,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Abbrechen,1,2,1,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Down_kurz,1,2,2,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Up_kurz,1,2,3,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Down_lang,1,2,4,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Up_lang,1,2,5,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Fehler_Bed,1,2,6,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Kodierinfo,1,2,7,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Neu_Setzen,1,3,0,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Recall,1,3,1,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Sender,2,3,2,U,3,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Neu_Zaehler,4,3,4,U,15,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Tip_Down,1,4,0,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Tip_Up,1,4,1,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Zeitluecke,2,4,2,U,3,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Sta_Limiter,1,4,4,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Typ_Hauptschalt,1,4,5,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Sportschalter,1,4,6,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[START_SIGNALS] GRA_Fehler_Tip,1,4,7,B,1,0,1,0,1,,,XXX
[END_MSG]
« Last Edit: January 08, 2022, 01:49:59 AM by tao13 » Logged
Dave9n3
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« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2024, 11:16:22 AM »

Does anyone know which other modules are sending 0x38A onto the bus?

I currently have aftermarket pedals sending the 0x38A message for the tip up and down, and they work but I get the occasional double shift. I’m assuming this is because there is multiple 0x38A being sent by different modules (I have an aftermarket module plugged in transmitting the paddle messages)

I have disabled the ECU sending it with CW_CAN_S as suggested previously, and confirmed this on the bench with a CAN sniffer, but I notice on the car I still have some other module sending 0x38A

I plan to monitor the canbus and unplug other modules until it stops, to narrow down which unit is sending it, but let’s say I find it’s the convenience module or the gateway and I have no way to change the coding to stop this.

Is there a hardware method I can use? Some sort of filter to allow a module to send every message it likes apart from 0x38A?

I’m a bit stuck and would appreciate someone’s advice
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prj
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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2024, 12:37:16 PM »

You can always add a CAN filter between that module and the bus. A device with 2x canbus that filters or alters messages as you see fit.
No idea if there is something ready to go like that, which you can buy, but any micro with 2x CAN will do.
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Dave9n3
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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2024, 01:41:23 PM »

You can always add a CAN filter between that module and the bus. A device with 2x canbus that filters or alters messages as you see fit.
No idea if there is something ready to go like that, which you can buy, but any micro with 2x CAN will do.

That would be good, not sure how hard that will be but at least it’s a possibility!
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Dave9n3
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« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2024, 03:02:58 PM »

Did some sniffing and now worked out that J519 is sending 0x38A onto the bus also, I just plugged the sniffer in and left it running whilst I killed modules one at a time until the message wasn’t present. I have tried recording the module, none of the predefined options VCDS shows you yielded any result. Then went trigger happy and just started unticking boxes in the long coding in the hope I’d mash my way to success but unfortunately not.

Looks like I may end up building some can-bridge/MITM module. Before that I wonder if I can just remove the module from the powertrain bus. Not entirely sure what other info it’s sending to the bus





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terok
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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2024, 11:06:13 AM »

If you have PQ25 J519 (Polo, Transporter, for example), which also includes gateway, then yes it does this.
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