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Author Topic: Log Diagnosis - Slow Spool  (Read 4285 times)
CoupedUp
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« on: May 31, 2012, 04:38:45 PM »

I recently bought an 2003 Audi A6 2.7T. I found a receipt in the glovebox to Joe Hoppen for approx. the price of a tune. When I drove the car I knew it was faster than the stock 250HP up top but was very lacking down low, primarily the spool area. I own another turbocharged car, albeit a much faster car, and it's spool response is much faster. The slight throttle on the highway and general driving didn't seem to have much pickup. The car didn't really feel to come alive until about 4000 RPM which I found odd for a completely stock car. The logs below definitely explain that. I'm coming to you guys to see if you have any advice on what the issue may be.

Below are the logs for my car. (I know that the layout, organization, etc., are not ideal but this is my first quick go with ECUxPlot.)











It's pretty obvious that the Actual Boost is slow to respond to the desired boost input. If any other logs would be helpful, please let me know.

I'm also going to attach my BIN file if anyone feels like poking around with it. Any and all help is appreciated, even it is just telling me where the tune came from! I'm going to try and poke around with a stock BIN and compare it to mine. Thanks!
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prj
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 01:13:54 AM »

Boost leak. Or dead diverter valve.
After you check those, start looking at logs.

Although your WGDC does seem odd.

Also, are there no codes?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 01:16:19 AM by prj » Logged
CoupedUp
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 06:58:51 AM »

I'd doubt it'd be a boost leak because of the drivability issues that would be associated. I'll look into the diverter valves. I'm green to the Audi scene and didn't realize they were a common issue. I'll check them tonight.

What does a typical WGDC log look like?

No codes outside of the occasional intermittent EGT or Secondary Air Pump codes.
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prj
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 07:08:41 AM »

The WGDC looks more or less okay.
It could be better, but the fact that you are not even making 15 psi at 75% suggests that something is wrong.

That's why I said boost leak or shot diverter valve.

Also, your CFs look horrible up top. -10 deg retard... that's not healthy at all.
Personally, I would say - flash this car to stock and make your own tune. Or if you don't want to go through the effort, a stage 1 is pretty easy to do remotely.
I don't recommend running this tune due to those CF's.

This is of course all after you fix your dump valves Smiley
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CoupedUp
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 07:23:02 AM »

Ok, thanks.

CFs = Correction Factors? I wouldn't call that "not healthy" as that makes it sound dangerous. It's definitely not advantageous for making power, that's for sure. Is it the tune that's retarding it or is it the knock voltages? The knock looks pretty normal/good to me though.

I was thinking of flashing to Jude's M Box Stage 1 91 Octane tune. I'll need to read more up on what exactly I need to do to make sure I can safely flash that to my A6. I'm just super nervous to flash to this car since I just got it. I've hacked Playstations and XBOXs but this is a little different. I may just give it a whirl tonight.

Any tips when flashing? I know that constant 12V source is the best.
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prj
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 08:12:42 AM »

12 degrees CF's is exactly what I would call "not healthy". And no, this is not normal at all. You want to be at 4 or below.
Or to more exactly put it, try to keep your average wkrm at -1.5 or under.

I would not flash other people's tunes. Make your own or get it custom made for your car.
Nothing against the person in question, I just don't support copy paste.

Of course opinions are like assholes and everyone has one.
I've tuned more than 100 engines with different ECM's, spent ages listening to different engines with detcans, seen plenty of knock damage.
So my opinion in regards to knock is fairly conservative. You should have a little bit of average retard, because else you just won't make power (some cylinders knock before others), but otherwise KFZW/2 should be set so that WKRM is not below -2.25 degrees.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 08:23:46 AM by prj » Logged
CoupedUp
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 10:34:57 AM »

I appreciate your time and input. Any and all opinions are welcome.

I already spend a decent amount of time tuning on my 'fun' car's standalone and don't have the time, currently, to tackle this stuff right now. I've got a grasp for how editing the maps works but I've barely grazed the surface.

I may just go back to stock so I have a frame of reference from Stock -> Stage 1.
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prj
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 02:13:13 PM »

Yes, put it to stock and then fix your mechanical issues.
After that tune it.
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CoupedUp
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 05:33:35 PM »

Unfortunately the diverter valves checked out to be ok.

I then connected to the ECU with NefMoto flasher and read the ECU info like I've done a few times. I then went to the ECU Flash portion and selected the BIN file and memory layout. I thought about flashing but figured I should read up on it more. Out of curiosity I ran the "Check If Flash Matches" on a few bins and of course only the one that I had read from my ECU a while back matched. I'm not sure what I did to disconnect from the ECU. The nefmoto app was definitely done doing what it was doing but I'm not sure if i clicked disconnect, closed the app or just pulled the cable.

Anyhow, now the computer wont connect to the ECU and the car just cranks without starting. Ugh. I'm assuming I'll now need a Galetto(sp) cable and get it into boot mode.
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lulu2003
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2012, 02:01:11 AM »

recheck LDRPID.
Duty cycle needs to be longer at 95% to build boost.
was it a 3rd gear run?
can you try with a higher gear an log?

try to cut batterie and after 30 Sec. reconnect either battery and flasher with ignition on before you try to start.
helps from time to time
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CoupedUp
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2012, 07:52:53 AM »

Thanks. I'll look into that map once I can actually connect to the ecu. It was a third gear log.

I'll try the battery thing here in a bit.

EDIT: I just tried disconnecting the battery with no luck. I disconnected negative battery terminal and let it sit for ~10 minutes or so. Then I connected my OBD2 cable to computer and car. Then connected the battery terminal and then turned on ignition and tried to connect to the ECU. No luck. Then I tried starting the car, of course no luck either.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 09:10:50 AM by CoupedUp » Logged
lulu2003
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2012, 05:22:15 AM »

then you need to do it with boot mode!
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Instigater
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 04:21:31 AM »

Hi!
Continuing old thread as it perfectly matches my car.

The history behind this car is original 305k km. LPG was put on stock car at around 200k km. I bought it with 270k km on odo. I have a feeling that turbos should spool earlier. Thanks to this site and s4wiki I made my own tune to take advantage of LPG. On original tune (which is about 12 degrees later in advance and run very rich) I could hear that flames in exhaust manifold are so long at times that are being bite with turbine blades. Now there is split second response difference from both turbos (one starts to whistle on boost onset a little later than other). From graph it looks like I'm demanding a little too much at top end from my k03's yet that is no concern at this moment for me. What concers me is boosting later than I expect. Also, there is no problem spooling lower on highway, like it could be felt that 6th gear boost starts to build up around 2k rpm if waited in WOT for second or more.

Logfile is an excerpt of 3rd gear pull of Allroad with manual diesel transmission (more like 4th gear of petrol transmission).

I'm attaching turbo map with flow, boost graph, actual excerpt log and my current tune.

Please look at my log and graph. What is it more like: bad diverter valve, restricted exhaust or just bad cracked turbos?


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