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Author Topic: MK4 IMMO3 issue  (Read 905 times)
Woolcott
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« on: September 20, 2022, 08:10:49 PM »

Hey guys, long time lurker here, first time poster. I finally encountered an issue I wasn't able to search and find an answer to so I figured id ask.

I was given an ECU that has some sort of aftermarket tune on it, not entirely sure what it is but I was told it could be APR/Revo/Unitronic or something along those lines. The ecu does not have the immobilizer disabled, so I figured id just disable it like I have done many times. I was able to dump the EEPROM via obd, disable the immo via me7 eeprom 1.40, check the file (immo off, checksum OK), and flash back to the ecu via boot mode. I put the ecu into the car, put my key on, and the immo light starts to flash. Car starts for a second then shuts off. I dump the file via OBD again, check it with me7 eeprom and it says the immo is on again  Huh

I know the "big name" tuners tie the eeprom to the ecu/tune, but all I'm trying to do is just turn the immo off. Has anyone ever experienced/solved this before? I will try to dump the eeprom via boot mode tomorrow but I'm not sure that's going to make a difference.
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stuydub
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2022, 07:41:08 AM »

Eeprom has to be done in bootmode or immo off the flash file
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elektronik13
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2022, 10:25:34 AM »

Hey guys, long time lurker here, first time poster. I finally encountered an issue I wasn't able to search and find an answer to so I figured id ask.

I was given an ECU that has some sort of aftermarket tune on it, not entirely sure what it is but I was told it could be APR/Revo/Unitronic or something along those lines. The ecu does not have the immobilizer disabled, so I figured id just disable it like I have done many times. I was able to dump the EEPROM via obd, disable the immo via me7 eeprom 1.40, check the file (immo off, checksum OK), and flash back to the ecu via boot mode. I put the ecu into the car, put my key on, and the immo light starts to flash. Car starts for a second then shuts off. I dump the file via OBD again, check it with me7 eeprom and it says the immo is on again  Huh

I know the "big name" tuners tie the eeprom to the ecu/tune, but all I'm trying to do is just turn the immo off. Has anyone ever experienced/solved this before? I will try to dump the eeprom via boot mode tomorrow but I'm not sure that's going to make a difference.
share the eeprom you made
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Woolcott
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2022, 05:56:07 PM »

I did a bit more poking around earlier today. I dumped the eeprom in bootmode, but that made no difference. Just for the hell of it, I turned the immo off on my stock ecu (also immo3), put it back into my car, started it, and read the eeprom via obd. The immo stayed off on the stock ecu as it should.

I went back to the "tuned" ecu, and copied over the eeprom and flash from my stock ecu, making it a clone. Then i flashed the "tuned" files to it just to start fresh. Proceeded to turn off the immo and immediately after taking the ecu out of boot mode, i tried to read the eeprom via obd and it would not read, kept saying FAIL (error=0x01). I then put the ecu back into boot mode, read the eeprom that way and checked it. At that point it still said immo off. Put the "tuned" ecu back into my car with the now (presumably) turned off immo, and it started for a second then died. With the ecu still in the car, i read the eeprom again with eeprom tool, except this time it was able to read it via obd, and the immo status was back on...I assume there is some sort of security measure implemented to overwrite the immo in the eeprom on startup. This sounds like something revo does. It is briefly touched on in this thread. 
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/immo-defeat-help-moved-from-the-vag-com-forum.5062348/
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elektronik13
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2022, 02:31:12 PM »

I did a bit more poking around earlier today. I dumped the eeprom in bootmode, but that made no difference. Just for the hell of it, I turned the immo off on my stock ecu (also immo3), put it back into my car, started it, and read the eeprom via obd. The immo stayed off on the stock ecu as it should.

I went back to the "tuned" ecu, and copied over the eeprom and flash from my stock ecu, making it a clone. Then i flashed the "tuned" files to it just to start fresh. Proceeded to turn off the immo and immediately after taking the ecu out of boot mode, i tried to read the eeprom via obd and it would not read, kept saying FAIL (error=0x01). I then put the ecu back into boot mode, read the eeprom that way and checked it. At that point it still said immo off. Put the "tuned" ecu back into my car with the now (presumably) turned off immo, and it started for a second then died. With the ecu still in the car, i read the eeprom again with eeprom tool, except this time it was able to read it via obd, and the immo status was back on...I assume there is some sort of security measure implemented to overwrite the immo in the eeprom on startup. This sounds like something revo does. It is briefly touched on in this thread. 
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/immo-defeat-help-moved-from-the-vag-com-forum.5062348/

I don't know what you're up to because I can't understand you
while saving, nothing can change, if that happened the ECU would show you the middle finger
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Woolcott
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2022, 05:27:25 PM »

I don't know what you're up to because I can't understand you
while saving, nothing can change, if that happened the ECU would show you the middle finger

I was given a previously tuned ecu that wont work without the corresponding eeprom.

I dump that eeprom, disable immo, flash it back onto the ecu. I start the car, it shuts off after a second. I dump the eeprom again, check it, immo is back on.

I thought it might have been an issue with the ecu, so I flashed a stock tune/eeprom (not one from my car obviosuly), and deleted the immo. Car starts fine, immo stays off on the ecu.

I am trying to figure out why and how the immo on the tuned ecu keeps turning back on as soon as I try to start my car.
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_nameless
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2022, 11:09:00 PM »

how about adopt the immo to your car and move on, or overwrite the file with a stock eeprom and flash and tune that. Questions like you are asking rase alarms for low level noobs trying to copy someone else's work to resell... POA ANYTHING thats on that ecu calibration wise is most likely nothing to write home about anyway APR files are meh, revo was a copy of apr early on too. You could make something better then whats on that ecu with some effort. Clearly the ecu has some custom code linking the flash and eeprom and anyone that knows anything wont reply on this topic as its kind of a dicey topic. 
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elektronik13
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2022, 02:06:43 AM »

I was given a previously tuned ecu that wont work without the corresponding eeprom.

I dump that eeprom, disable immo, flash it back onto the ecu. I start the car, it shuts off after a second. I dump the eeprom again, check it, immo is back on.

I thought it might have been an issue with the ecu, so I flashed a stock tune/eeprom (not one from my car obviosuly), and deleted the immo. Car starts fine, immo stays off on the ecu.

I am trying to figure out why and how the immo on the tuned ecu keeps turning back on as soon as I try to start my car.
Share this file Tuned
and I think how to solve it for you
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 02:13:44 AM by elektronik13 » Logged
elektronik13
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2022, 02:16:20 AM »

how about adopt the immo to your car and move on, or overwrite the file with a stock eeprom and flash and tune that. Questions like you are asking rase alarms for low level noobs trying to copy someone else's work to resell... POA ANYTHING thats on that ecu calibration wise is most likely nothing to write home about anyway APR files are meh, revo was a copy of apr early on too. You could make something better then whats on that ecu with some effort. Clearly the ecu has some custom code linking the flash and eeprom and anyone that knows anything wont reply on this topic as its kind of a dicey topic. 
The ECU has no code, and speak for yourself not for others
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fukenbroken
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mk4 1.8T AUM


« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2022, 09:26:10 AM »

The ECU has no code, and speak for yourself not for others

The ecu has some custom code or asm patches.
Or eep was not properly flashed
No 3rd option here
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elektronik13
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2022, 01:26:06 PM »

The ecu has some custom code or asm patches.
Or eep was not properly flashed
No 3rd option here

you can learn a lot from this
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 01:39:51 PM by elektronik13 » Logged
Woolcott
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2022, 03:55:45 PM »

There are plenty of "cookie cutter" tunes that use next to no security that could be easily cloned and sold if that was my goal. Also, as mentioned, I could always adapt the immo to my car, but why? There's no fun in taking the easy route and not learning anything. I was more interested in trying to figure how a flash can alter the eeprom, and what can be done about it. I'm by no means an expert but ill keep poking away at it in my spare time and see what I can find out about it, maybe one day ill figure it out  Grin
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prj
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2022, 03:45:29 AM »

Also, as mentioned, I could always adapt the immo to my car
No you can't, because VIN will change in ECU and it won't work anymroe.
A flash can alter eeprom in any way you want.
You can write any location, nothing special.
And the protection is doing what is needed, preventing copying by people who don't understand anything.

It is just possible to copy the maps. But of course if they were very serious they probably shifted some maps results based on VIN as well.
Doing map encryption is a very labor intensive task though on older ECU's, because you have to patch every single map lookup with something fancy.
Or you need a good enough analyzer that can find all function calls and automatically scramble maps.

Complete waste of time for anyone but the biggest companies who sell a huge amount.
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_nameless
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« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 12:28:04 AM »

Share this file Tuned
and I think how to solve it for you
posting files that are not user made is agents forum rules. Clearly you're too stupid to read the rules ...
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elektronik13
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« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 09:29:59 AM »

posting files that are not user made is agents forum rules. Clearly you're too stupid to read the rules ...
I think you are too stupid to read this transcript with understanding
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