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s5fourdoor
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« on: June 26, 2012, 12:02:02 PM »
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for the last few weeks I've been trying to reverse engineer the rs4's characteristic features, comparing the k-box to the m-box.
the search overall has gone pretty well. let me share some things i've found. 2.7t + k04's, this applies to you.
one of the big outstanding issues is that audi changed axis values. as prj - and other's have noted, the 8-bit load variable restricts maximum load to 191.25 for the m-box. what this means is that if you are running a m-box, you are going to have alot of trouble getting around that detail.
i took the easy route when trying to replicate the rs4's ecu: be as unobtrusive as possible.
the maps you'll need may be more than what's shown here.
kfmirl - boost
kfmiop - torque
rlvmxn, rlvsmxn, kfmizufil - torque intervention disabling
kfldhbn - pressure limitations
kfldrq2, ldrq0s, ldrq0dy, kfldimx, kfldrl, ldrq1st - corrected PID calibration
kfped, kfwdksmx - pedal adjustments
tldoban, kfdluls - overboost kill and intervention disabling
kfdmdaro, kfdmdadp, kifzghg - [dashpot?]: complicated integrators from the torque model which cause nasty timing oscillations
kfzw1, kfzw2, kfzwop1, kfzwop2, kfzwmn, kfzwms: timing tables
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 03:00:03 PM by nehalem »
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nyet
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 12:04:35 PM »
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awesome start
add these to your list, btw (ARMD) :
KFDMDARO
KFDMDADP
KIFZGHG
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nyet
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 12:06:58 PM »
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humph. no axis data?
i can probably modify mapdump to dump these maps in a more useful format.
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 12:09:51 PM »
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now for some progress talk. the most difficult engineering issue i've come across relates to the timing curves and cam switching.
timing curves quite literally determine the progression of an engine under all circumstances.
going from idle to WOT, timing.
going from WOT to partial, timing.
going from partial to light throttle, all timing... get where i'm going with this?
idle - i hope you dont' have idle timing issues... lmfao.
anyways, i took the KFZWOP, KFZWOP2, and KFNW maps and stitched together what ME7 actually sees, which we call ZWGRU[opt].
i did this for both the S4 and the RS4. let's take a peek at those:
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 12:10:41 PM »
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humph. no axis data?
i can probably modify mapdump to dump these maps in a more useful format.
axis values are all the m-box. believe me i'm all for switching to the k-box though... |
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 12:15:44 PM »
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Those graphs look distinctly like timing curves for differing fuels...
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 12:17:00 PM »
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Also, I almost forgot one of the most critical pid maps - KFLDRL
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 12:20:35 PM »
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Those graphs look distinctly like timing curves for differing fuels...
my exact observation... |
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 12:24:43 PM »
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the biggest deduction i've reached thus far - after using the rs4 maps: the stock m-box timing is stupidly aggressive. audi built the 2.7t k03 engine to be a torque monster, area under the curve, over-tech-mologied. this does not work for the rs4 style turbos, nor bigger turbos. let me show some evidence as seen on the iso-load timing plots.
this needs to be accounted for, and ideally calculated from a theoretically derived optimum.
please see the direct evidence posted here which shows that the stock m-box timing curves need massive changes. believe me, i do not have the solution for this yet. and further this is made much more difficult because of the two timing maps. obviously you want any solution to use them correctly, like the oem would have done...
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 12:27:46 PM »
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awesome start
add these to your list, btw (ARMD) :
KFDMDARO
KFDMDADP
KIFZGHG
gladly, can you recheck the spreadsheet to make sure the tables are to your liking? i'm not sure the values are correct... |
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« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 12:34:46 PM by nehalem »
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nyet
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 12:41:23 PM »
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hmm for some reason axis data is still missing for me.
BTW i REALLY like where this is going!
About time somebody did this.
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Rick
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 01:27:05 PM »
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Of course M box timing needs massively changing for K04's! Load is not restricted to 191 either in the M box.
It's irrelevant what you start with, you should tune for the application at hand. C box, K box, M box, D box, they all end up with the same results once I've finished tuning them.
Rick
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nyet
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« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 01:55:10 PM »
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Of course M box timing needs massively changing for K04's!
I've done a WHOLE lot of adustments in high load/high rpm regions, but not so much elsewhere. Got any advice to give for those non-WOT areas? |
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prj
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 05:40:01 AM »
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Yeah, load is not restricted to 8 bit in any of these.
What is restricted to 8 bit are the *axes* on most important maps in the M-Box.
In the K-Box, all those axes are 16 bit, and you can rescale timing etc properly, not just run everything higher than 190 load off of the 190 load column.
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2012, 09:27:00 AM »
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Yeah, load is not restricted to 8 bit in any of these.
What is restricted to 8 bit are the *axes* on most important maps in the M-Box.
In the K-Box, all those axes are 16 bit, and you can rescale timing etc properly, not just run everything higher than 190 load off of the 190 load column.
We need to accelerate the community switching to this... |
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