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Author Topic: What maximum RPM limit for Stock config?  (Read 10040 times)
Michel94
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« on: September 27, 2012, 12:38:03 PM »

Hi, what is the limit for you than ideal for RS4 or S4 with K04 in being reasonable ?

i put mine to 7200rpm, just to get the opinions of others  Wink
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Rick
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 02:18:16 PM »

7200 is good Smiley
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Michel94
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2012, 03:49:16 PM »

Yes ,there are people who run with more rpm?
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Rick
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2012, 04:23:09 PM »

Yes there are, and the valve train can take it, but on  K04 and std cam you are well beyond peak power.
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Jason
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2012, 04:37:11 PM »

There really is no reason to.  The stock rods aren't strong enough, and K04's don't move enough air up top.
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2012, 05:55:02 PM »

There really is no reason to.  The stock rods aren't strong enough, and K04's don't move enough air up top.


+1


6800, don't bother with k04's.  you are just stressing your engine for no good reason.  honestly, you do what you want with your car, but i really doubt you make more HP over 6500 by shifting at say 6800 let alone 7200...
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Jason
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2012, 06:22:01 PM »

There is a slight benefit to shifting a K04 car just before 7200, and that's only because third gear is a little too tall coming out of second.

These cars do sound sweet at 8500 though with rods and springs... Smiley
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2012, 09:47:36 PM »

There is a slight benefit to shifting a K04 car just before 7200, and that's only because third gear is a little too tall coming out of second.

These cars do sound sweet at 8500 though with rods and springs... Smiley

I totally agree on your 7200 rpm point.  How many lbs of boost are @ when your car hits 7200 rpm with k04's?
Dot you think the cost of a custom gearbox would be comparable to the headwork+rods for a stock car?
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Jason
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2012, 10:44:53 PM »

When I had k04's with port matched manifolds and 3 inch downpipes it would taper off to about 23psi at 7K.  The thing is, even on crap fuel you can start to pour the timing back in over 6K which compensates slightly for the lower boost.  By bumping up the shift point slightly it puts you in a better part of the powerband going into third.

Oh, and the correct answer is you should do both the RS4 third gear and the valvetrain Cheesy

The mistake I see people constantly making is they blow an enormous amount of cash on valvetrain parts they don't need.  All you need are springs and good retainers.  Stock valves are lighter than the popular oversized exotic valves and they don't cost $900 plus the associated machinework.  The stock valves are VERY GOOD.  Also, the design of these heads is a gift from the gods - they are built to rev to the moon and most people don't realize how incredibly lucky they are to have a direct acting mechanical bucket design.  I mean, desmodromic valves would be neat buuuuuuuuut.. Wink

If you're building a high winding big turbo car and you've got $900 to blow on valves, just buy a 3 liter crank and pistons instead.  You'll make more power and won't have to rev it out as far  (And since you're already doing rods to wind it out, just get 3L rods instead Wink)  Valves should be the last thing you ever spend money on, and even then you should use stock valves.
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2012, 10:55:18 PM »

OK.  Very informative.  So spoon-feed me a bit here if you don't mind.  LOL.
Let's say you had a strong-running K04 car and it was time to do a 60k timing belt.  (I'm quite far away just setting the scenario up.)
Assume we are keeping the budget as-efficient-as-possible.  How would you prioritize cash to spend for a top-end rebuild instead of a standard timing belt job?  In what order would you rank the cash-to-be-spent versus available mods?  Intake Mani?  TB?  Y-pipe? Head-work?  Retainers+Springs?

Or are we already at the point where you'd want rods and a fresh set of rings to boot?  Its all about the relative costs.  Hence all of my posturing.
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Jason
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 11:33:03 PM »

60K?  LOL, that thing isn't even broken in yet.  Honestly, what are you looking to accomplish?  Are you going to do bigger turbos or stay K04?

If you're going to stay K04 I wouldn't touch the heads.  Re-seal the cam phaser/tensioner assemblies, replace the cam seals, and re-seal the valvecovers.  Buy a Gates T297RB Racing belt off Amazon (it's like half the price of what the weenies at 034 and Integrated Engineering charge), a Bosch 98212 water pump, a new thermostat, and I always use the factory tensioner, idler, and roller assembly.  I've found a lot of the budget timing belt kits include some really poor quality parts and I've seen people turn perfectly good engines inside out as a result.  I mean, you're buying a $275 timing kit, and they're making money on it, so consider what all the parts REALLY cost...

If you're going to do bigger turbos, I wouldn't touch the heads right now.  Doing valvesprings now is only going to cost you money, deliver no benefit, consume lots of beer, and hurt your fuel economy until you pull the trigger on the turbos.  You're still going to have to pull the heads when you swap the rods, and that's the time to do the valve springs, port or replace your manifolds, etc.  The stock pistons are great, so I'd clean them up, get some new rings, deglaze the cylinders, and move forward.  If the big and little ends of the rods weigh close to the stock rods, you can probably get away without rebalancing the assembly.  I always balance my builds, but some people seem to get away with it on these engines for whatever reason.

I just pulled the factory 180k mile motor out of my car that had an unbelievable amount of track use and abuse.  The cylinder heads were in perfect shape.  The bearings looked brand new.  I'd still be abusing that motor balls to the wall if the cylinder walls weren't pitted from a plumbing explosion that flooded my garage for a week while I was on vacation.  I keep meaning to post about it but I've been too busy with all my other broken 4 wheeled garbage.

Also, junkyard engines are cheap as hell now that the Tokyo Drifterz can afford to buy these cars on their 16th birthday and immediately total them.  So if you're going to do a build, consider buying a junkyard engine as your starting point.  That way you're not in 6 month rolling shell hell and the build just becomes an engine swap.  Then sell the old engine, or keep it as a spare.
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Jason
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2012, 11:38:06 PM »

Also, if you're already running K04's don't even consider 'upgrading' to hybrids or RS6's.  They're the best way to spend $2500 plus a weekend of work for another 50hp.  Not worth it IMO.  Go big or don't bother...
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prj
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2012, 02:22:23 AM »

7300 or so would be as high as I would go.
At 7500 there is jitter on the stock 5V head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3HwJDxgLUU
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lulu2003
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2012, 04:37:40 AM »

cool video/test.

hopefully they did not forget to apply only half of 7500 rpm to the camshaft Wink
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