dubmaniac
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« on: September 28, 2012, 07:03:50 AM »
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HI, I am not remapping myself, but trying to investigate a problem I have with my MY06 Golf GTI DSG After a remap (Dutch Tuner, well respected) I have some issues at high load. I seems that the power is not immediately returns after a gearchange at higher load 0,5 sec delay. It is best discribed in this pic..which is from a tread from a guy which had similair problems. In his case there where some DSG related maps in the ecu which needed some tweaking..(guess) http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,36417.30.html My tuner claims this behaviour is just to protect the clutch, which i doubt.. I really hope someone on this board has some experiece with dsg specific tuning, and can give me some hints.. I have a genuine VCDS, so i can log... |
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Gonzo
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 07:18:29 AM »
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If you didn't get a DSG remap as well, this is normal.
There is ways around it in MED9 but most people don't know how to do it.
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Rick
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2012, 07:19:51 AM »
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What boost are you running?
This happens for two reasons:
1. Improperly calculated torque maps.
2. DSG protection, where the gearbox sends a signal to the ECU to reduce torque due to the gearbox torque limiter.
Rick
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dubmaniac
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2012, 07:54:53 AM »
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First, Thank you all spending time on a "passant".. Tonight I will check my requested boost, and do you have other tips which channels to log to backup your 2 reasons? Thanks in advance.. btw. this is the dynoplot before and after remap, car is stock..  What boost are you running?
This happens for two reasons:
1. Improperly calculated torque maps.
2. DSG protection, where the gearbox sends a signal to the ECU to reduce torque due to the gearbox torque limiter.
Rick
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dubmaniac
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2012, 08:02:36 AM »
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I was in the assumption, DSG remap was not nessesary for stage 1. "There is ways around it in MED9 but most people don't know how to do it."Can you shed some light on this?? If you didn't get a DSG remap as well, this is normal.
There is ways around it in MED9 but most people don't know how to do it.
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Rick
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2012, 08:12:22 AM »
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Block 115 gives boost actual and requested.
Is your car not an Edition 30? it is making a lot of power for stage 1, but probably just the dyno is out. You are also flatlining at 400Nm of torque, which is above the DSG torque limit so you are almost certainly hitting this limit.
The DSG limit can be overcome in software, there are a few ways of doing it. I can do it but am in the UK.
Rick
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nokiafix
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2012, 11:37:24 AM »
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Few people on mk5 forum had this issues, I have put a few right by fixing and recalibrating the engine map, some had file read from manual cars loaded to them. Some manual versions had a few changes in them which effect the characteristics of the DSG, and some I have had to raise the torque limiters and speed up the shift speeds in the TCU map.
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dubmaniac
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2012, 11:55:35 AM »
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Not able to log tonight, i now have 2 notebooks with dead batteries.. :-( The car is a normal k03s GTI (BWA Engine).. Block 115 gives boost actual and requested.
Is your car not an Edition 30? it is making a lot of power for stage 1, but probably just the dyno is out. You are also flatlining at 400Nm of torque, which is above the DSG torque limit so you are almost certainly hitting this limit.
The DSG limit can be overcome in software, there are a few ways of doing it. I can do it but am in the UK.
Rick
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dubmaniac
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2012, 12:00:15 PM »
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This torque limiter is still not clear to me, from what i have read it is limited to 350nm, so why i my graph showing 400??..
Also you mentioned the TCU can tell the ECU to reduce power?..Can this be logged?
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Rick
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2012, 12:11:43 PM »
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The Limiter is 350Nm - internally calculated by the ECU. It is not hugely accurate. It is calculated within the Engine ECU and sent to the DSG ECU. If it is above 350 the DSG ECU will send a signal back to engine ECU to reduce torque. You won't have 400Nm, and you also won't have 270bhp, but you likely are setting off the DSG protection.
As Nick pointed out above, there is a good chance that the tune you have is not from a DSG car too...
Thanks, Rick
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dubmaniac
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 12:18:20 PM »
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So you either "Lie" to the DSG ECU, or ignore the DSG's return signal to overcome this? The Limiter is 350Nm - internally calculated by the ECU. It is not hugely accurate. It is calculated within the Engine ECU and sent to the DSG ECU. If it is above 350 the DSG ECU will send a signal back to engine ECU to reduce torque. You won't have 400Nm, and you also won't have 270bhp, but you likely are setting off the DSG protection.
As Nick pointed out above, there is a good chance that the tune you have is not from a DSG car too...
Thanks, Rick
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Rick
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2012, 02:17:36 PM »
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That is essentially correct  Rick |
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RaraK
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2012, 05:10:39 PM »
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There are 2 levels of torque reduction in the ecu, thats a start. Have ecu not care that it wants torque reduction, or change the ecu's internal torque calculation routine. downside of tricking dsg gearbox is that it wont always apply maximum pressure to clutch packs, so you may run into issues with that since you are lying to dsg gearbox on torque, if you disable by torque maps then dsg will make most pressure allowable by stock calibratoin on clutch packs that it can, but remap of tcu will increase pressure beyond! TCU remap is BEST way and most reliable way. However, stage 1 remaps are safe to just trick dsg or ecu if you go larger turbo(k04 or greater) with higher torque, get proper dsg remap for sure. |
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dubmaniac
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2012, 01:21:17 AM »
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Allright! This sheds some light on it, thanks! So can I find traces of evidence with VCDS if one of these these are taking place? And is there more in depth information about this topic?..I am pretty geeky regarding these things. Would like know more about what is going on in the engine. Unfortunately I can not examine the current flash because the tuner blocked it..bummer There are 2 levels of torque reduction in the ecu, thats a start. Have ecu not care that it wants torque reduction, or change the ecu's internal torque calculation routine. downside of tricking dsg gearbox is that it wont always apply maximum pressure to clutch packs, so you may run into issues with that since you are lying to dsg gearbox on torque, if you disable by torque maps then dsg will make most pressure allowable by stock calibratoin on clutch packs that it can, but remap of tcu will increase pressure beyond! TCU remap is BEST way and most reliable way. However, stage 1 remaps are safe to just trick dsg or ecu if you go larger turbo(k04 or greater) with higher torque, get proper dsg remap for sure. |
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dubmaniac
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2012, 10:35:26 AM »
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Finally got a wot on 4th gear to log today..looks like 1.2bar to me..  |
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