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Author Topic: 90mm MAF housing over stock 80mm Z20LET MAF  (Read 45605 times)
prj
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« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2013, 05:56:51 PM »

But prj, there are 1000hp + cars running BOVs! That means BOVs are good.

 Grin
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prj
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« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2013, 05:57:46 PM »

I wouldn't say Seimens Deka 60lb's are shitty, infact even tuners who don't properly map in TVUB still manage to get them running pretty sweet at low idles such as 750-900rpm and still pass emissions tests. Heck I've even had Seimens Deka 80lb's idling perfect with cams on a Z20LET.

In regards to not having a MAF curve or not being able to make one, if you have a dyno and a wide band you can make one. Disable fuel trims set the desired fuelling and measure the error and correct the MAF curve easy.

They are good when they are new. For 20000-30000 km.
After that their spray pattern on low pulsewidths goes to shit and they start misfiring on idle.
I wish I took a video of the injector bench, but those injectors at low pulsewidth were not spraying, they were taking a piss.

BTDT a million times now.
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kelesha
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« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2013, 11:31:17 PM »

But prj, there are 1000hp + cars running BOVs! That means BOVs are good.
No, BOVs are not good at all for Motronic cars even with mafless tunes they are trickly, the only way they can work is like prj said with blow thru maf if the BOV is before the maf i.e turbo ---> bov ---> maf ---> throttle
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alexs307
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« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2013, 11:34:47 PM »

Will receive car back from bodywork shop these days as it will be painted and will restart adjusting it. Will also swap to separate boost controller as I suspect the pierburg valve of the car is far from being precise. Will also move the 72mm sensor into the 85mm housing and try to adjust it, will keep you updated. Thank you so far for the good piece of advice posted here.
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prj
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« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2013, 01:49:42 AM »

Will also swap to separate boost controller as I suspect the pierburg valve of the car is far from being precise.

Not sure if serious or trolling.

First you fit a BOV on a ME7 car.
Then you say that you can't tune a MAF, so you want to remove it.
And now you say you don't know how to tune boost, so you want to put a MBC on?

jfc, give it to someone who has an idea.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 01:51:47 AM by prj » Logged

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alexs307
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« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2013, 02:28:21 AM »

Boost is tuned, little 1.6bar spike then constant 1.5bar boost. It's not that I can't tune it, it's the fact that the turbo solenoid valve seems to not be so precise on higher boost values.

ME1.5.5 it's a hybrid ecu, narrowband, indeed operating principle may be close to Me7, but this does not mean that it has same behaviour and precision.

And yes, I don't know how to tune the new MAF, no one was born a genius, I mentioned my experience is limited on these ecus. All I said about it is that I tried the diameters square ratio method, which is described all over this forum, but no one except one user here suggested MAF offset correction also, which sounds pure logical now once it was explained.

I would give it to someone who has an idea if I lived in a civilised country and not at the end of the world. In my country there are 2 cars like this, one stock and the other is mine. Closest Opel tuning company is in Germany, 2000km away.

Parts take from 1 to 3 weeks to arrive, no matter what I order.

Having these great opportunities in this wonderful country that I live in, I am forced to find myself the hard way a solution to make this car work, no matter if it has MAF or not, if turbo goes via stock solenoid or via MBC, etc.

I thank you all for precious piece of advice, don't want to bother anymore with my actions on this car, considering both lumpy idle and MAF calibration subjects received a certain answer, topic can be closed. Will open a new one once the setup is ready, of course I will try to keep both MAF and N75 active, if that will be possible.

Regards,
Alex

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Lobuziak
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« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2013, 02:45:32 AM »

how far is this Maf curve from yours , i have known this one to work . Unsure what housing it was in tbh but if it helps you out then bonus
Id say altering ignition low down would help with the cutting out possibly ,
It suppose to be for 90mm (outside diameter) housing ... but it is scaled only by 20% in the range 1-5V ... Dan, did You used it without any other scaling factors?
I made a comparison with graph and included real Bosch 92mm(82mm ID) AFM characteristics from Bosch site.
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prj
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« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2013, 03:07:54 AM »

Boost is tuned, little 1.6bar spike then constant 1.5bar boost. It's not that I can't tune it, it's the fact that the turbo solenoid valve seems to not be so precise on higher boost values.
The ECU does not see more than 2550mbar. But you don't need an MBC, it can just be tuned to a fixed WGDC value.
Nothing to do with "being precise" or not. The only thing a MBC is good for, is to put it in parallel with the N75, to make sure the boost does not spike over a certain value.
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ME1.5.5 it's a hybrid ecu, narrowband, indeed operating principle may be close to Me7, but this does not mean that it has same behaviour and precision.
It is basically ME7. Yes it has pretty much same behaviour, and I don't see why you are talking about "precision". I don't think you quite understand what this word means in this context.
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And yes, I don't know how to tune the new MAF, no one was born a genius, I mentioned my experience is limited on these ecus. All I said about it is that I tried the diameters square ratio method, which is described all over this forum, but no one except one user here suggested MAF offset correction also, which sounds pure logical now once it was explained.
Fit the stock MAF, then tune the injectors to be perfect.
After you are done, fit the new MAF, and tune it again to be perfect.
Like this you can tune completely unknown injectors and completely unknown MAF, for which you have no specifications at all.
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I would give it to someone who has an idea if I lived in a civilised country and not at the end of the world. In my country there are 2 cars like this, one stock and the other is mine. Closest Opel tuning company is in Germany, 2000km away.
So what country is that?

Also, if you already know how to log the ECU and how to flash it, then I am sure you can be helped online for a fee.

My objective is not to diss your efforts, but you just did the 3 biggest no-no's that apply to tuning these cars:
1. Fitting a BOV.
2. Removing a MAF.
3. Fitting a MBC.
Add to that the fact that you make bold claims about "precision" when not fully understanding what you are doing, and you don't come over too well, that's the thing.

If asking for help you need to be more specific, for example:
I changed the MAF, then changed map X and map Y. The car was doing Z and I logged values P and Q to confirm.
Also, first thing will be to fit a recirculating valve if you want to get this sorted, as well as fitting back the stock MAF and linearizing the injectors correctly. After that actual tuning can start.
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Rabbid
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« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2013, 03:25:54 AM »

I've got a number of larger than LEH MAF cuves used on these engines. I've found quite a considerable varience with it between different tunes I've seen.

Really depends what actual MAF you're using as the term 90mm MAF seems pretty loose to which MAF the tuner's been using judging by the huge difference in max air flow.
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kelesha
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« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2013, 06:44:21 AM »

I think it is impossible to have max torque at less than 4000revs, usual power figures show max torque at 5000rpm and beyond.

Mine is building 1.5-1.6bar of boost at 4500-4800rpm.

Here is one Astra G Coupe Z20LET with stock M1.5.5, stock head, stock intake manifold with stock throttle body, GT3076R turbo 0.63 exhaust A/R, 830cc DEKA injectors, MAFless tune, removed both lambda sensors, with fuel economy better than stock car, idle is smooth like stock but on 950rpm because of more good idle oil pressure with hot oil. ECU controled boost and as you can see full spool 1.45bar on 3700rpm and flat torque curve from 3900 to 5000rpm. For reference only, on that dyno fully stock Astra H OPC(240hp) is 150kw on wheels

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alexs307
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« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2013, 09:21:59 AM »

Here is one Astra G Coupe Z20LET with stock M1.5.5, stock head, stock intake manifold with stock throttle body, GT3076R turbo 0.63 exhaust A/R, 830cc DEKA injectors, MAFless tune, removed both lambda sensors, with fuel economy better than stock car, idle is smooth like stock but on 950rpm because of more good idle oil pressure with hot oil. ECU controled boost and as you can see full spool 1.45bar on 3700rpm and flat torque curve from 3900 to 5000rpm. For reference only, on that dyno fully stock Astra H OPC(240hp) is 150kw on wheels



This is nice for driving but not so nice for the well known weak F23-gearbox. But it is good to know, I never thought the Gt30 could full spool under 4k.

Ok, PRJ, will take it the way you told me to, following the steps you mentioned. More feedback at the end of the week. Country is Romania, btw.
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prj
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« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2013, 09:24:53 AM »

I might go there in Spring.
If you don't have it dialed it in by then, I'll sort it Wink
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rnagy86
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« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2013, 09:42:28 AM »

This is nice for driving but not so nice for the well known weak F23-gearbox. But it is good to know, I never thought the Gt30 could full spool under 4k.

Ok, PRJ, will take it the way you told me to, following the steps you mentioned. More feedback at the end of the week. Country is Romania, btw.
Oh come on Romania is not that bad. If you need some Opel hardware or other stuff that you can't get in Romania just ping me and I can probably help you out from Hungary. I've pretty decent connections at the local dealers here.
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kelesha
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« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2013, 12:03:51 PM »

Whats wrong with Romania i dont know ?........In your country you have one of the world fastest street Nissan R35 GT-Rs (8.9sec 1/4mile), 8.8sec Nissan Pulsar, several 9sec cars and many 10sec cars, performance tuning in Romania is not bad at all.

Btw I am from Bulgaria, but as you see on dynograph, its not the problem to tune Z20LET engine here Wink
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Rabbid
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« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2013, 12:15:33 PM »

F23 ain't weak it's a beast when you compare it to the M32 box  Grin
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