chokee
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« Reply #240 on: April 22, 2014, 05:55:46 AM »
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Just an FYI, I've had a problem with my injectors starting with 550s couple of years ago and now with 1000CC where when cold starting the engine, the first minute of mild throttle accelration would show the engine going first very rich and then very lean (sometimes it would start literally bucking). It almost seems like the warm up map is completely off for bosch where at some RPMs it needs to be much less and at some much more but I have no patience to calibrate that map. Long story short, I noticed that the lambda FR_W output changes are very lazy when engine is cold resulting in large lag to lambda changes and I finally found the maps governing it. Comes out that when engine is cold and "I" value of PID controller for lambda is lowered so that the transitions take place much longer. Once I altered it to normal "1" value, I stopped having the issues. maps: FLRM - TMOT (engine temp depedant) FFRITMS - ITMS (engine start temp dependant) Good luck finding any info on this in Funktionsrahmen....  Change both to "1" and you should stop having these issues. "M" box definition: <XDFTABLE uniqueid="0x11AB7" flags="0x0">
<title>FLRM</title>
<description>Factor for I-dynamics of the lambda controller depending on TMOT (engine temperature).

This controls I quotient of mixture control. Stock is slow to react in cold engine which might lead to enrichment/enleament in incorrectly scaled warm up maps.</description>
<CATEGORYMEM index="0" category="18" />
<XDFAXIS id="x" uniqueid="0x0">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="-32" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<indexcount>1</indexcount>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<LABEL index="0" value="0.00" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
<XDFAXIS id="y" uniqueid="0x0">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="-32" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<indexcount>5</indexcount>
<embedinfo type="3" linkobjid="0x11AB2" />
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
<XDFAXIS id="z">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x11AB7" mmedelementsizebits="8" mmedrowcount="5" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<decimalpl>2</decimalpl>
<min>0.000000</min>
<max>255.000000</max>
<outputtype>1</outputtype>
<MATH equation="-0.000000+X*0.015625">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
</XDFTABLE>
<XDFTABLE uniqueid="0x11AB2" flags="0x0">
<title>0x11AB2 - Grad C</title>
<CATEGORYMEM index="0" category="255" />
<XDFAXIS id="x" uniqueid="0x0">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="-32" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<indexcount>1</indexcount>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<LABEL index="0" value="0.00" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
<XDFAXIS id="y" uniqueid="0x0">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="-32" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<indexcount>5</indexcount>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<LABEL index="0" value="0.00" />
<LABEL index="1" value="0.00" />
<LABEL index="2" value="0.00" />
<LABEL index="3" value="0.00" />
<LABEL index="4" value="0.00" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
<XDFAXIS id="z">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x11AB2" mmedelementsizebits="8" mmedrowcount="5" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<decimalpl>2</decimalpl>
<min>0.000000</min>
<max>255.000000</max>
<outputtype>1</outputtype>
<MATH equation="-48.000000+X*0.750000">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
</XDFTABLE>
<XDFTABLE uniqueid="0x1A095" flags="0x0">
<title>FFRITMS</title>
<description>Factor for I-dynamics of the lambda controller depending on tmst (engien start temperature).

This controls I quotient of mixture control. Stock is slow to react in cold engine which might lead to enrichment/enleament in incorrectly scaled warm up maps.
</description>
<CATEGORYMEM index="0" category="18" />
<XDFAXIS id="x" uniqueid="0x0">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="-32" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<indexcount>1</indexcount>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<LABEL index="0" value="0.00" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
<XDFAXIS id="y" uniqueid="0x0">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="-32" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<indexcount>4</indexcount>
<embedinfo type="3" linkobjid="0x1A091" />
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
<XDFAXIS id="z">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x1A095" mmedelementsizebits="8" mmedrowcount="4" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<decimalpl>2</decimalpl>
<min>0.000000</min>
<max>255.000000</max>
<outputtype>1</outputtype>
<MATH equation="-0.000000+X*0.003906">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
</XDFTABLE>
<XDFTABLE uniqueid="0x1A091" flags="0x0">
<title>0x1A091 - Grad C</title>
<CATEGORYMEM index="0" category="255" />
<XDFAXIS id="x" uniqueid="0x0">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="-32" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<indexcount>1</indexcount>
<datatype>0</datatype>
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<DALINK index="0" />
<LABEL index="0" value="0.00" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
<XDFAXIS id="y" uniqueid="0x0">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedelementsizebits="16" mmedmajorstridebits="-32" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<indexcount>4</indexcount>
<datatype>0</datatype>
<unittype>0</unittype>
<DALINK index="0" />
<LABEL index="0" value="0.00" />
<LABEL index="1" value="0.00" />
<LABEL index="2" value="0.00" />
<LABEL index="3" value="0.00" />
<MATH equation="X">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
<XDFAXIS id="z">
<EMBEDDEDDATA mmedaddress="0x1A091" mmedelementsizebits="8" mmedrowcount="4" mmedmajorstridebits="0" mmedminorstridebits="0" />
<decimalpl>2</decimalpl>
<min>0.000000</min>
<max>255.000000</max>
<outputtype>1</outputtype>
<MATH equation="-48.000000+X*0.750000">
<VAR id="X" />
</MATH>
</XDFAXIS>
</XDFTABLE> You sir just solved the final issue I had with my tune. For the first 3-5 minutes of cold operation under mild throttle I would see >1 lambda and it made the car drive like crap. This problem would dissappear completely after a few minutes. I had been all over the place modifying warmup maps trying to fix this. I started to think I had a sticky valve somewhere when the engine was cold introducing a minor vacuum leak. I played around with these maps you mentioned last night and this morning lambda under mild throttle with cold engine was sitting right at 1 instead of creeping above 1. The car drove much better. Thanks. |
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userpike
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« Reply #241 on: April 22, 2014, 01:37:10 PM »
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I have a question regarding fuel trims on my car and I feel this would be a great place for it since I am running ev14 52lb injectors, if not I will post a new thread. Anyway, I recently changed my setup slightly and the change was that I went from an rs4 fuel pump to a stock s4 fuel pump and now am having a system too lean issue. I was wondering if the reduced flow of this pump had caused my injectors, even though still using the stock fuel pressure regulator, to flow less fuel than I had KRKTE set for and thus the reason its now running lean. Is that possible? Because the rs4 pump FLOWS more at the same rail pressure (FPR) is the only reason I can think this would happen.
you should expect to see lean conditions where the s4 pump cannot perform as well as the RS4pump regardless of your krkte value. Why did you downgrade anyway? |
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julex
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« Reply #242 on: April 23, 2014, 01:00:26 PM »
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You sir just solved the final issue I had with my tune. For the first 3-5 minutes of cold operation under mild throttle I would see >1 lambda and it made the car drive like crap. This problem would dissappear completely after a few minutes. I had been all over the place modifying warmup maps trying to fix this. I started to think I had a sticky valve somewhere when the engine was cold introducing a minor vacuum leak.
I played around with these maps you mentioned last night and this morning lambda under mild throttle with cold engine was sitting right at 1 instead of creeping above 1. The car drove much better.
Thanks.
Glad to be of help, this issue was pain in my ass as well. |
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nyet
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« Reply #243 on: April 23, 2014, 04:12:19 PM »
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I don't understand why people won't just figure the math to solve for KRKTE then "set it and forget it"
I kinda like scaling it a bit so I can underscale the MAF by a fixed percentage.. just a touch... to avoid ps_w limits w/o having to REALLY hack at KFLF and KFKHFM. I know most everybody here will yell at me to use the 5120 hack, but I am still not confident we have found all the ps dependencies  Not that I would recommend that you MUST do it this way, just one reason you might not want a KRKTE that is the theoretical value... |
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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Time 4 Rebuild
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« Reply #244 on: April 28, 2014, 06:20:52 PM »
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Hopefully I don't totally confuse everyone with this but shouldn't TVUB be 3d?
As long as the fuel system is not returnless the fuel pressure will change with intake manifold pressure. So do you used the dead times for base fuel pressure or idle fuel pressure? Or does FRLFSDP give us a way to do this in a roundabout way.
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julex
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« Reply #245 on: April 29, 2014, 05:48:38 AM »
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Hopefully I don't totally confuse everyone with this but shouldn't TVUB be 3d?
As long as the fuel system is not returnless the fuel pressure will change with intake manifold pressure. So do you used the dead times for base fuel pressure or idle fuel pressure? Or does FRLFSDP give us a way to do this in a roundabout way.
The pressure differential is constant where it matters, which is between inlet of injector (fuel rail) and outlet (intake manifold) because FPR sees to it that it remains so. As such, the injector always sees the same pressure (whatever the FPR is set to) and TVUB remains constant. It doesn't matter what fuel rail pressure vs ambient is (it will always be FPR + manifold pressure/vacuum) as far as TVUB goes. Does it make sense? |
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Time 4 Rebuild
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« Reply #246 on: April 29, 2014, 04:15:41 PM »
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The pressure differential is constant where it matters, which is between inlet of injector (fuel rail) and outlet (intake manifold) because FPR sees to it that it remains so. As such, the injector always sees the same pressure (whatever the FPR is set to) and TVUB remains constant. It doesn't matter what fuel rail pressure vs ambient is (it will always be FPR + manifold pressure/vacuum) as far as TVUB goes.
Does it make sense?
That makes sense, forgot about manifold pressure trying to push the injector open. |
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Iaus
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« Reply #247 on: May 01, 2014, 05:56:29 AM »
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 Was trying yesterday to figure out KRTKE. Have an 4B0906018AL with franken turbo and EV14 550cc injectors, Have scaled MAF house for S3/TT 225 house, Have tried theoretical mat for KRTKE, but i dont get a good nr that looks correct, dont have number her, since i was at work doing this last night stock KRKTE is 0,005661 Was thinking of using TVUB as in 550cc sheet I hope to learn how to do this the correct way 50,2624x0.4452/(372x0.684) = 0,087942 can anyone tell me what that is wrong here
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« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 12:23:38 PM by Iaus »
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Iaus
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« Reply #248 on: May 01, 2014, 01:40:40 PM »
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Is it possible that my KRKTE that i posted was wrong.
I was looking in another mappack for another file that it was in 16Bit Lohi
so when i changed it i got 0,37507 do that look correct for ori?
or is it still something that i have missed
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BerkleyJ
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« Reply #249 on: July 15, 2014, 07:46:19 AM »
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KRKTE: 0.05495
Voltage mS
7.04 - 4.36
10.06 - 1.64
12.03 - 1.158
14.08 - 0.751
17.88 - 0.40
I just wanted to bump these numbers as they seem to be calculated correctly right off the spec sheet and also seemed to be close enough starting numbers for my setup (Bosch 550's @ 4 bar). I did end up raising KRKTE to about .062 which seems odd, but my trims are within 1% so... |
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 03:58:59 PM by BerkleyJ »
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Divune
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« Reply #250 on: August 18, 2014, 01:08:50 PM »
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Has anyone gotten the 630cc Ev14s to run decently, (0280158298) -730cc at 4 bar. I based my numbers on what I pulled from the ME7 wizard, but I have not been able to find any proper starting values for TVUB. I'm using the older Nefmoto stage 3 base tune, any info is appreciated.
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BerkleyJ
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« Reply #251 on: August 18, 2014, 03:46:32 PM »
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Has anyone gotten the 630cc Ev14s to run decently, (0280158298) -730cc at 4 bar. I based my numbers on what I pulled from the ME7 wizard, but I have not been able to find any proper starting values for TVUB. I'm using the older Nefmoto stage 3 base tune, any info is appreciated.
http://www.boschdealer.com/specsheets/It seems the 650's are the same as the 550's in which case you can use the values I quoted just above your post. Also, I recommend using Berttos Stage 3, though I'm not sure what happen to the "Tuned ECU Files" section of the forums. If you can't find the Berttos file, PM me and I can send it to you. When using the Berttos File I recommend setting KFKHFM to the stock values or at least lower the first column or your idle trims will be significantly richer than your partial throttle trims. I'm not sure why Berttos has a wacky KFKHFM. |
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 03:56:07 PM by BerkleyJ »
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Divune
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« Reply #252 on: August 18, 2014, 04:22:03 PM »
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Where are you seeing the 298s on that list, are they under a different #? They should not be the same as the 550s, the 298s I bought to replace the 117(550s) because the 298s are apparently ~730cc at 4 bar, unless I got ripped off haha..... I pmd you also, thanks
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BerkleyJ
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« Reply #253 on: August 18, 2014, 04:26:48 PM »
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Where are you seeing the 298s on that list, are they under a different #? They should not be the same as the 550s, the 298s I bought to replace the 117(550s) because the 298s are apparently ~730cc at 4 bar, unless I got ripped off haha..... I pmd you also, thanks
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4345.0It seems the 550 numbers are at least a good starting point. |
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 04:29:11 PM by BerkleyJ »
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Divune
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« Reply #254 on: August 18, 2014, 04:31:25 PM »
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Ah ok good stuff, Ill start with the 550c values are go on! They should be pretty similar.
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