keithwbloom
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« on: February 21, 2013, 05:42:22 PM »
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I am trying to solve for a surging idle condition on an ATQ V6. It would seem that it is not a phenomenon unique to the setup, but common in almost all super charger applications. I would like to try to decipher what Audi has done in tuning their super charged inductions systems to prevent surge at idle.
I know this forum is mostly concerned with turbo applications in the 2.7TT and 1.8T engines. Any thoughts are welcome.
Cheers,
Keith
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ddillenger
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2013, 05:44:21 PM »
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I have a lot of your G bin defined. Not the entire thing mind you, but quite a bit. Email me.
AFAIK (which isn't everything BTW, so I may be wrong-it's happened one time before) Audi never had a supercharged ME7 application.
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keithwbloom
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 06:09:08 PM »
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What is Audi using on their newest Super Charged 3.0 V6s? Is it a newer version of Motronic?
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ddillenger
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2013, 06:09:55 PM »
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Definitely MUCH newer. Me7 was done by 05 (in VAG that is).
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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phila_dot
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 06:12:38 PM »
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What is Audi using on their newest Super Charged 3.0 V6s? Is it a newer version of Motronic?
Simos 8.x IIRC |
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prj
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 06:17:26 PM »
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I am trying to solve for a surging idle condition on an ATQ V6. It would seem that it is not a phenomenon unique to the setup, but common in almost all super charger applications. I would like to try to decipher what Audi has done in tuning their super charged inductions systems to prevent surge at idle. Boost control. Something you probably lack  |
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2013, 06:21:19 PM »
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Definitely MUCH newer. Me7 was done by 05 (in VAG that is).
not necessarily. 2.5 still used me7 all the way up to 07 or 08. by surging idle do you mean a loopy cam style idle? |
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keithwbloom
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 11:48:52 AM »
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Thanks for chiming in guys, I have been away for a while.
It seems the surging idle is perhaps related to the MAF sensor throwing a unexpected high current error. Once the error is present in the ECU memory, the surging idle abates. It is as if the ECU adjusts for the condition and cures itself.
I have yet to test with VCDS, but when I clear the stored error codes using a quick read tool (ECS ScanPro), the surging idle returns until I push it far enough to throw the MAF voltage/current error and then the idle smooths out again. I am not sure, but I suspect the clear stored error codes function on the ScanPro is perhaps also clearing out learned adjustments and returning setting to default.
I have been driving the car on the OE stock ECU for about a week, and I only have seen the bank too rich or lean codes a couple of times, but the car is clearly lacking in power under load and still stumbles and misfires if pressed. I can't complain too loudly as yet, I have a tuned ECU from Josh on my bench to drop in and evaluate, I just have not been able to find a block of time to do so with my laptop riding shotgun logging data with NefMoto and or VCDS.
But I do love the sound of the SC whine. I want to get the base tune sorted soon and start to really look at the refinements to be made down the line over the summer.
Cheers,
Keith
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k0mpresd
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2013, 12:14:54 PM »
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clearing dtc's clears adaption as well.
the maf code is probably because you going beyond the max kg/hr the ecu expects to see (obviously you flowing tons more air with the supercharger).
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ddillenger
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2013, 12:17:10 PM »
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I'm going to go with incorrect maf/injector scaling on this one. Once the error is thrown the ecu ignores the maf reading and runs off default values.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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keithwbloom
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2013, 12:25:11 PM »
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This is great feedback. I suspected as much as well. Now since I am running on stock ECU, albeit with some fueling issues, should I start from there and try to make the MAF/injector scaling corrections first to see if the stock 7.1 tune with said adjustments can keep up with other adaptations? Or should I try to run the tuned ECU from Josh long enough to get usable LTFT values from logging to see what's happening?
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ddillenger
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2013, 12:28:23 PM »
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With maf scaling being off I wouldn't think your fuel trims will be relevant. What maf are you running (year, make, model, manufacturer)? Injectors? I've spent some time defining your file, I believe I can help.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com
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keithwbloom
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2013, 12:47:26 PM »
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Engine is DBW 30V ATQ 2.8L. Original ECU is 3B0 907 551 DB.
ECS Tuning says the MAF is stock 30V Audi/VW part number 078133471. I'll confirm in a few minutes.
The injectors are Audi B5 S4 red-tops, I am attaching a Witch Hunter Performance data sheet from their cleaning, rebuild and flow testing last fall.
FPR is stock 30V Audi/VW 4.0 bar. I just noted that Witch Hunter test pressure was 5.0 bar. Do I need to replace FPR with 5.0 bar unit?
SC is running 3.1" pulley, good for about 7lbs boost at TB assuming a little loss to IC and plumbing. I haven't yet installed boost/vac gauge, so I am going by PES specs and SCAudi.com members' collective knowledge on that figure.
I run only 91+ octane, usually put 93+ from Sunoco in.
Need to move this thread from here to another location?
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« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:50:44 PM by keithwbloom »
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ddillenger
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2013, 12:51:05 PM »
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hitachi maf? Are you sure it isn't the stock sensor in a larger housing?
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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keithwbloom
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2013, 01:16:27 PM »
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Yup. Hitachi MAF 078133471E. Here's a pic.
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