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prj
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« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2013, 05:57:03 AM »
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It is, but that only happens when there is continuous knock.
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Acki
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« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2013, 08:34:40 AM »
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Ok. I ask because I have noticed a higher fuel consumption in some areas where I raised the ignition. But I'm not sure if the knock control makes the fuel richer (I didn't noticed at my wideband, but this most not mean anything) or I have raised the ignition too much... argh I must go on a dyno to check the engine output at some points  |
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prj
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« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2013, 11:11:34 AM »
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On naturally aspirated car only way to tune ignition is on dyno especially on this older lower compression ratio motor where the cylinder bore clearances are most likely less than optimal.
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karel5000
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« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2013, 11:26:45 AM »
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Maybe he also sees it load related and miss the information about the ignition?
You are the first one to ask, how i thought it. I was talking about knocking generally. I was talking about the indicaded pressure (pressure in the cylinder). This is a function of many thinks. One of the most important ones are ignition and MAF. Hence, ignition is a function (again) of MAF... Now it only depends, how the management of ECU is made up. This is a point here. There are different ways... I like to discuss not quarrel... @karel: Can you upload the complete bin files? top and bottom? At RS2/S4/S6 datasets which I have I have nothing at you adresses.
The addresses are not exactly beginings of maps, but may be middles... I have not got time to specify exactly the beginings. But emu works there... I will upload the orig. software. I must first find, how to do it |
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 12:02:54 PM by karel5000 »
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karel5000
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« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2013, 11:38:13 AM »
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Also how the knock control works, in the SSP it's said that it also makes the fuel mixture richer - is this true?
To make a fuel richer because of cooling is a standard function of, probably, all nocking managements. |
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kaross
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« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2013, 12:37:51 PM »
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Yes.Some "pro-tuners" turn it off.
Haven't seen anyone properly adjust anything.
As for reliability, I have per-cylinder KR in real time and I have car on dyno, and every event I hear I can see in real time in the log.
I don't bother with headphones for these anymore. I only verify at start that everything is OK (incase of heavily modified engine or incorrectly torqued knock sensors) and after that I just look at logs.
Knock recognition works perfectly in this ECU.
do you mean this:  I have seen this in one tuner work. Was thinking why it has been done like this. Cars mostly runs great.  |
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kaross
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« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2013, 01:08:52 PM »
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It is, but that only happens when there is continuous knock.
How it is happening if boost chip and fuel chip is two seperate things. In general like two ECUs. |
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Acki
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« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2013, 01:40:05 PM »
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Think about prjs posts  |
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prj
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« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2013, 01:52:56 PM »
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How it is happening if boost chip and fuel chip is two seperate things. In general like two ECUs. I will leave you to find it out  do you mean this: I have seen this in one tuner work. Was thinking why it has been done like this. Cars mostly runs great. Nothing to do with knock. You are the first one to ask, how i thought it. I was talking about knocking generally. I was talking about the indicaded pressure (pressure in the cylinder). This is a function of many thinks. One of the most important ones are ignition and MAF. Hence, ignition is a function (again) of MAF...
Now it only depends, how the management of ECU is made up. This is a point here. There are different ways... So you are wrong like I said. And also cylinder filling is irrelevant, because it is taken out of the game by the fact that knock detection is not absolute value, but rather a coefficient between the base level and the peak. The coefficient depends mostly on RPM and amplification level of knock signal, and the amplification level depends on how loud the engine is ... Higher cylinder pressure - higher base level, higher peak, same coefficient. And clearly this works great on the I5 ... Please, no need to insult me with theories, I am telling you how it is in this ECU. Unless you have a better source you do well to listen - but I kinda have most branches of the knock and adaptive knock routines labelled in IDA by now |
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 01:56:15 PM by prj »
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Acki
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« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2013, 02:05:12 PM »
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I think he is speaking about his understanding of knocking and not about the function in the software.
The software only looks in a window before the next ignition event.
To don't get in trouble with other engine noise.
And also the level - louder combustion and higher revs.
But of course a knock event also depends on the load (VE) of the cylinder.
Lean mixtures need more ignition for example because flame front is slower.
Also the knock event is different "sound level" than at x bar of boost because much more energy knocks (detonation is the wrong word for it).
I guess he means this.
Could or would you give a small hint to find the functions in IDA?
I'm not able to find a real starting point (I know I have to begin at the reset function).
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prj
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« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2013, 02:07:39 PM »
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Your ECU does not contain those functions in the chip that you are looking in.
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Acki
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« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2013, 02:12:12 PM »
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I would also look into I5 for learnings. But according to the SSP the 4.2 V8 has cylinder selected knock control. How ever - I only can learn. |
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prj
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« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2013, 03:24:47 PM »
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I would also look into I5 for learnings. But according to the SSP the 4.2 V8 has cylinder selected knock control. How ever - I only can learn. Yes, but not in the chip you are looking into! I already told you where it is. And you can not change anything, because it's in ROM. |
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Acki
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« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2013, 10:24:11 PM »
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Different CPU? V8 has 8051 - that has NO ROM.
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prj
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« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2013, 04:10:35 AM »
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Different CPU? V8 has 8051 - that has NO ROM.
Sigh... The 2.2T has two 80C535's, yours only has one and one chip. For the third time! There is no knock control detection functionality in the chip you are looking at. Look around on the board, on the same board next to the 80C535 is a motorola IO extender and a 8051 injector driver. All MCU's. And none of those have anything to do with knock control either. The knock control is on the bottom board, which is completely different between 2.2T and V8. And the V8 does not have a writeable chip on the bottom board, it's all embedded in the ROM of the MCU, which is a different MCU on the V8 and the knock control is completely different. Nothing you can adjust, because you don't have the second MCU like 2.2T!!! |
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 04:12:41 AM by prj »
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