MmmBoost
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 10:39:58 PM »
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Well I have very little confidence in the base file. When I was running the 630cc injectors that the file was programmed for my car ran like shit. It was unacceptable for a file like that to be considered a "base file"/starting point.
I have gone through and reset many of the maps back to 1.001 and tried tuning that way. I even went so far as to put my stock injectors back in to tune my brand new TT225 MAF with KFKHFM.
I just got back from trying to tune my new Bosch Ev14 750cc injectors and had ZERO luck with them. I'm getting very frustrated. I really believe that the MAF linearization map that Tapp has in there for the TT225 MAF is incorrect. I'm trying to find a WinOLS file running the same MAF so I can compare the values in MLHFM.
For the time being I'm basically stuck at 15PSI because I have can't seem to get fueling under control. How do I even know that the values in Maestro are even using the correct factors and offsets? I just don't trust anything in there......I'm essentially tuning blind.
For instance, I asked for the FRLFSDP (Injection correction during RLFS) to be added and sure enough he did, however, I have always seen the pressures listed as:
-1200
-1000
-800
-600
-400
-200
0
200
400
600
800
his values are:
-300
-250
-200
-150
-100
-50
0
50
100
150
200
It seems like they're off by a scale of 4x. Lol... what would happen if I went and changed them to the values I think they're supposed to be? ............BAD THINGS. That's what would happen.
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MmmBoost
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2011, 11:06:17 PM »
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IF someone could post up a MLHFM for a TT225 MAF I would REAAAAAAAAAALLLY appreciate it.
I have an XDF file, but tunerpro crashes trying to open a map that large.
I have a few bins in winols, but haven't a clue if i have the right address.
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julex
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2011, 08:31:34 AM »
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IF someone could post up a MLHFM for a TT225 MAF I would REAAAAAAAAAALLLY appreciate it.
I have an XDF file, but tunerpro crashes trying to open a map that large.
I have a few bins in winols, but haven't a clue if i have the right address.
I had a problem with MAF map when trying to open it in Tunerpro as well for S4 "M" XDF. Either newest TunerPro can finally open it or the newest revision of "M" XDF is finally allowing the program to do it, either one. Try newest TunerPro and if that still doesn't open the MAF map, look at "8D0907551M-20110122.xdf" posted on this site and move the definition for MAF map to your TT225 file. This should allow you to open and view the values. As to your tuning gripes... you nee to find the baseline, you must be absolutely sure that you either have an accurate injector constant or maf map. Keep in mind that the Maestro injector constants are for 3 bar FPR. Most of Audis come with 4bar fpr from factory so your fueling will be off from start. Thanks. |
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MmmBoost
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2011, 01:25:50 PM »
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I am not using an S4 MAF. I am using an TT225 MAF. They are different diameters so the response curve will not work.
From what I understand the actual sensor is the same though. F 00C 2G2 047
I took some time last night and plotted out every 10th value from Maestro7's "TT225" MAF map against an S3 MAF I have in WinOLS. I attached the results below.
As for getting the injectors right, I've been using the Bosch document to calculate my injector constant and then tuning it using LTFT's. (but maybe that was all messed up becuase my MAF profile is incorrect???)
I haven't trusted the injector constants in Maestro for a LONG time now, they never worked for me.
750cc @ 43.5 PSI = 866CC @ 58 PSI
866cc/min x 0.684g/ml = 592.34 g/min
KRKTE = 50.2624 * (1.781/4) / 592.34 = 0.0378ms/%
The ECU doesn't seem too happy with the exact number out of the calculation. It's close though, but I assume the differences are due to actual flow of injectors vs. rated flow.......or quite possible the completely F'd MAF curve.
I don't know what the ACTUAL Qstat of my EV14 750's is though. Maybe I'll try and get that info out of 034 Motorsports.
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 01:59:54 PM by MmmBoost »
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kelesha
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2011, 03:51:13 PM »
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O2s are ignored openloop (desired lambda!=1)
Absolutely not true !!! ME7 cars run closed loop fueling all the time !!! |
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kelesha
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2011, 04:04:34 PM »
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MmmBoost, what about your fuel system ? AMB engine seems to have returnless fuel system, so how you set it for your injectors and still have needed flow ? What fuel pump you use ? If you max out your fuel pump on WOT and high rpms then you will have exactly that i.e high possitive 02 correction because ECU start to compensate for needed fuel......
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MmmBoost
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2011, 04:28:13 PM »
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@Kelesha
I have considered that it might be my fuel system actually. I am still running the stock returnless fuel system with the stock pump. One of the things that makes me question that theory though is that even though my O2 corrections are high, my Injector Pulse Widths do not get excessively long.......which would indicate the ECU is compensating for lack of pressure. Correct?
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kelesha
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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2011, 04:44:09 PM »
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I have considered that it might be my fuel system actually. I am still running the stock returnless fuel system with the stock pump. No way to run returnless fuel system, stock pump and GT2871R on 1.5bar........forget that !!! One of the things that makes me question that theory though is that even though my O2 corrections are high, my Injector Pulse Widths do not get excessively long.......which would indicate the ECU is compensating for lack of pressure. Correct? ECU try to compensate till actual lambda meet request value on vcds block 31, and if the fuel is not sufficient for programed period of time i.e in example if for 3sec request lambda is not equal to actual lambda then ECU shut the throttle to safe the engine........ |
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MmmBoost
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« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2011, 06:37:14 PM »
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A friend of mine is running a T3/T4 which is larger than a GT2871R on his stock fuel system with no issues. Maybe my pump is on it's way out.....
I did an experiment. I went into KFKL and bumped up the 191.25 column to 1.5 from 3000-7000 rpms. I went for a run at about 25 PSI and I was getting negative corrections except for the few RPMs where I spiked to about 27 or 28 PSI.
If I were to upgrade my pump and switch out my fuel system for the return system on the AEB engine, all I would have to do is change FRLFSDP to 1.000 across the table correct?
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 06:40:15 PM by MmmBoost »
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julex
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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2011, 09:26:21 PM »
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A friend of mine is running a T3/T4 which is larger than a GT2871R on his stock fuel system with no issues. Maybe my pump is on it's way out.....
I did an experiment. I went into KFKL and bumped up the 191.25 column to 1.5 from 3000-7000 rpms. I went for a run at about 25 PSI and I was getting negative corrections except for the few RPMs where I spiked to about 27 or 28 PSI.
If I were to upgrade my pump and switch out my fuel system for the return system on the AEB engine, all I would have to do is change FRLFSDP to 1.000 across the table correct?
It sounds to me like you're shooting there in the dark. You have many unknown variables and you don't know what's going on. My platform doesn't have wideband O2 so as a first investment into the tuning world I bought zeitronix with O2, 35psi boost sensor and fule pressure sensor. I can log the stuff I need to ensure I am not hitting some weird situation with fueling itself. I don't know how much fuel can your pump supply but it would be a good guess that if you're still stock you might be running beyond what you hardware can support. Even if you got just a cheap $20 fuel gauge and rigged it to your windshield outside of car (duct tape it outside so that you can see the readin while WOTing) it would help you to see if your fuel pressure is holding or not. |
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MmmBoost
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« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2011, 10:36:16 PM »
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Trust me man, I feel like I've been tuning in the dark from the beginning with Maestro7. No documentation, mislabeled tables, zero support, no explanaition as to how to adjust anything. You just get your cable, your base file.......and tune away.  Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. In any case, once I found some Bosch Me7 documentation, ditched my 630cc injectors, and went to Bosch 550's the car was running fantastic........up to 20 PSI or so. After that I was maxing out the injectors. Since I've installed the Bosch 750cc injectors I feel like I've taken 5 steps back from where I was only 3 days ago. I think it's prudent that I upgrade my fuel pump anyway. 2x the HP on the stock pump is just asking for trouble. I looked into renting a fuel pressure testing kit here but no luck so I'll probably just pick up a gauge from Podi since I get a few perks from being sponsored. I'm also going to install the 83mm MAF housing that I've had laying around here for 6 months since I feel I'm reaching the limits of the TT225 sensor in the 70mm housing. I'll be putting back in the stock injectors to try and help tune KFKHFM properly. Any tips on tuning that map? Also, back to a question I had earlier. If I wanted to convert to a return style fuel system with a pressure referenced FPR after the fuel rail, would all that's necessary to be changed is FRLFSDP set to 1.000 across the table? |
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« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 10:41:42 PM by MmmBoost »
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kelesha
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2011, 09:53:32 AM »
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A friend of mine is running a T3/T4 which is larger than a GT2871R on his stock fuel system with no issues. Maybe my pump is on it's way out..... "No issues" ? Does your friend ever try to meassure his fuel pressure at WOT ? If I were to upgrade my pump and switch out my fuel system for the return system on the AEB engine, all I would have to do is change FRLFSDP to 1.000 across the table correct?
Yes thats correct but its not sufficient |
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MmmBoost
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2011, 09:58:34 AM »
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"No issues" ? Does your friend ever try to meassure his fuel pressure at WOT ? Nope. But I take everything he says about tuning with a grain of salt anyway. Yes thats correct but its not sufficient Could you explain what you mean by this please? |
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kelesha
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2011, 10:59:54 AM »
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"No issues" ? Does your friend ever try to meassure his fuel pressure at WOT ? Nope. But I take everything he says about tuning with a grain of salt anyway. First you wrote "he have no issues" now you wrote that you dont trust him..........thats not serious really.........  Yes thats correct but its not sufficient Could you explain what you mean by this please? I mean that difference between return and returnless fuel systems when we talk about ME7 software is not only FRLFSDP |
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MmmBoost
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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2011, 11:04:01 AM »
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He claims he has no issues. I know he hasn't logged fuel pressure. .......and I have seen his logs. He is not leaning out as I am. But he is not running a MAF so I don't know what sort of voodoo he's worked on his car. What other changes would be necessary? The return fuel system was changed for emissions reasons. The returnless is definitely not ideal for increased power and boost..... So I would like to change it to the ideal setup if possible. |
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