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Author Topic: Bosch EV14 Injector Migration  (Read 361751 times)
Auriaka
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« Reply #300 on: February 26, 2021, 06:28:15 PM »

I have client cars that are using the EBAY pigtail adapter from DENSO to ev1... On my personal car I pulled the injector plugs off a 07K car in boneyard and just spliced the plugs on my stuff.

Nyet, Your welcome to use the information that I posted on the 235 injectors for the wiki, if there is anything else that you need let me know... I unfortunately do not have specifics on spray pattern and such though
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GolfSportWagen
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« Reply #301 on: February 26, 2021, 07:39:44 PM »

There are any number of connector and adapter suppliers online. Personally I prefer pigtails or just the connector to replace the OE connector vs. adapters but both should work as long as they are properly installed quality components.
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nupustas
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« Reply #302 on: September 18, 2021, 04:42:32 AM »

Does anyone uses 0280158235 731cc/min inejctors with 3bar regulator and pump gas (91-93octane)? Do you have TVUB values? Or maybe it should work with 750cc TVUB?
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kruftindustries
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« Reply #303 on: February 11, 2022, 03:25:35 PM »

Can anyone tell me what's going on here? TVUB too low at 14V? What is going on with 1.4v and then 1.6v? NOLRA is disabled and I'm fairly sure MAF is close
I'm losing my mind trying to get fueling right with 550cc's from ECStuning

Chart 1 ONLY Neutral gear and high RPM was used to get most of the values below 2.5V, higher load at similar airflow results in more or less sane AFR (I'm trying to emphasize low injector ontime)
Chart 2 Heavy(ier) - ie in gear load was used to plot airflow below 2.5V

I'll try low load high RPM again with larger TVUB, and post the results, maybe TVUB is only obvious at really low injector ontime and this just isn't emphasized outside of idle fueling in the wiki and most threads I've seen

« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 03:42:52 PM by kruftindustries » Logged
kruftindustries
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« Reply #304 on: February 11, 2022, 06:44:38 PM »

Chart below is with TVUB from nyet's chart on page 1 of this thread interpolated for my 4bar fuel pressure regulator and the same high RPM low load method was used to plot values below 2.5v (~125kg/hr). Looks like it was TVUB after all, I think the -15% lean around idle with the correct values is actually something to do with kat heating. Think I'm just going to ignore that in the future since everything else is roughly correct (kfkhfm == 1).

for each maf voltage with outlier data filtered:

((fr_w -1) + (frm_w - 1) +1)  *  lamsoni_w = lambda correction
ti_b1 - (tvu_w - tvsp_w) OR t1_bX - TVUB @ voltage = injector squirt time
injector squirt time * (lambda correction -1 )= injector squirt difference
injector squirt difference + TVUB should roughly equal your new TVUB at ub (not wub, no interpolation required) battery voltage.

this is just back of the napkin stuff but doing the above with a couple tables in a spreadsheet showed an error that roughly resulted in nyet's TVUB table values interpolated so I just copied them over and the end result is in the attached chart. Appears those numbers are for the injectors I have. I'll hook up a variable power supply and test them at TVUB axis voltages to double check at some point but it's working well enough as is.

TVUB
8V   10V   12V   14V   16V
3.227   1.611   1.155   0.749   0.539

KRKTE
0.05328


TLDR: In a wideband car, TVUB can be tuned empirically by logging RPM at sequential steps between idle and rev limit at each MAF voltage(range) with engine in neutral (about 10 seconds per MAF voltage range was good enough to show a trend for me). The resulting measured lambda and fuel trim is averaged at each MAF voltage and the correction trend can be plotted. This correction percentage can be correlated via the MAF voltage with the injector on time


« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 06:59:30 PM by kruftindustries » Logged
kruftindustries
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« Reply #305 on: February 13, 2022, 06:03:27 AM »

Just FYI, the discrepancy in KRKTE theoretical 0.05151 vs what I ended up with 0.05328 is it appears the OEM calibrator baked in a MAF offset across the board in KFKHFM, the weird KRKTE gets rid of that while underscaling the MAF a few %, with HFM set to all 1's. I'm not sure why, maybe either safety margin for dirty MAF or they calibrated without the plastic flow straightener installed?
edit: this was what worked for me with AWM engine code
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 06:17:32 AM by kruftindustries » Logged
BOLT
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« Reply #306 on: June 15, 2022, 05:44:46 AM »

How did you fix your warm start problem? I have same problem. If i leave overnight starts right up. Shut off and restart no problem ether. But if i go to store for 30-45 min takes 5-8 sec cranking before the car starts. 
hello all friends
I finally solved the problem with a warm start and not stable idle.
after cleaning the injectors in ultra sound, the master did not find any significant leakage of one of the injectors
after lengthy tests and hot start tinctures, nothing led to a positive result
I had to remove the ramp and look for leaks, as there was an understanding that a long start was associated with a rich mixture
so it happened
the nozzle did not bleed fuel into the intake for a long time and created a steam mist in the entire manifold, and only after a long scrolling by the starter, when the car was purged, did it start.
I had to replace it with a new injector.
I concluded for myself that it is necessary to carefully check for serviceability.
now everything is fine, the start is perfect, the idle is excellent, the trim is + -0.8
Maybe someone will find this information useful.
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BOLT
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« Reply #307 on: June 17, 2022, 06:23:56 AM »

hello all friends.
can anyone tell me how to use ME7Tuner?
I downloaded the folder with files v 1.05 but I don’t understand how to start it.
please do not swear.
did not create a separate topic.
Thanks.
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hiszpan995
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« Reply #308 on: October 18, 2022, 03:09:20 AM »

Hi, I read the whole thread, but I must admit that I got lost in it. If this is not a problem, would anyone be able to tell which maps to what values should be set initially for BOSCH 0 280 158 123? The flow from what I can see is 627 at 3 bar and that's what I stay at.

Will these values be suitable as baseline for a possible correction?
Bosch EV14 ~ 630 cm3 at 4 bar (550 cm3 at 3 bar)
KRKTE: 0.05745
TVUB: 3.364, 1.572, 1.128, 0.854, 0.568
FKKVS set to 1
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blairl
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« Reply #309 on: October 18, 2022, 06:42:29 AM »

Hi, I read the whole thread, but I must admit that I got lost in it. If this is not a problem, would anyone be able to tell which maps to what values should be set initially for BOSCH 0 280 158 123? The flow from what I can see is 627 at 3 bar and that's what I stay at.

Will these values be suitable as baseline for a possible correction?
Bosch EV14 ~ 630 cm3 at 4 bar (550 cm3 at 3 bar)
KRKTE: 0.05745
TVUB: 3.364, 1.572, 1.128, 0.854, 0.568
FKKVS set to 1

I can't speak to these values, but generally speaking to get started:

new krkte = original KRKTE * (new injector flow / old injector flow)

if you have appropriate values for TVUB from a datasheet, you can either interpolate them if the voltages don't match, or change the axis on TVUB to make them match.

Set FKKVS to 0, drive around long enough for the car to adapt. Tune TVUB and KRKTE off of the idle adaption and multiplicative adaption (fuel trims).

Tip in / tip out enrichment may need to be adjusted too.  Basically just follow PRJ's advice in the quote below.  That process worked wonders for me, just make sure you reset adaptation after you make a change, otherwise you end up chasing your tail.

Since I pretty much do not tune anymore, here's some info on how to scale aftermarket injectors, when you have no datasheet for them.

Let's say you have injectors on the car for which you do not have any clue what the TVUB could be, maybe you're not 100% on the flow rate either.
Let's assume for the moment that everything else on the car is linearized - because if not, then good luck to you. It is still doable, but without a huge amount of experience and knowledge you will not find out what's scaled wrong, so it is outside the scope of this topic.
Also before starting, pressure test the car and make sure there are no air leaks whatsoever anywhere, otherwise you're gonna have to do this all over again after fixing the leaks.

1. Set FKKVS to 1 everywhere.
2. Set KRKTE into the ballpark that you think it could be. By far the easiest way is to divide the OEM injector size by the current injector size and multiply KRKTE by this number, instead of trying to do theoretical calculations.
3. Take TVUB from some random injectors, that are at least the same type - e.g. EV6, EV14.
4. Start the car, if it doesn't start, you probably messed up really badly, so try to correct your error (or remove and clean the sparkplugs if you totally flooded it).
5. Let it warm up fully, so it's completely hot and there is no load on it.
6. Find KRKTE value so that you have more or less 1-2% fuel trim on idle with the hot engine.
7. Put some load on the engine, e.g. turn on the aircon, rotate the power steering, slip the clutch a little, put it in D if it's an auto instead of P/N, whatever. Observe what happens.
a) If the fuel trim goes positive, increase KRKTE, decrease TVUB at the voltage where you are testing (or just multiply the whole table), so FT is still good on idle, but does not drift away on load.
b) If the fuel trim goes negative, decrease KRKTE, increase TVUB at the voltage where you are testing (or just multiply the whole table), so FT is still good on idle, but does not drift away on load.
Usually it is good to change TVUB in 2% increments. Repeat this process until it's more or less stable, then proceed to 8.
8. Set the car on idle, fully warmed up. Increase the RPM, to 3000, then 6000 rpm without any load on the engine.
a) If the fuel trim goes positive, increase TVUB, decrease KRKTE to compensate, so that you still have good fuel trim on idle.
b) If the fuel trim goes negative, decrease TVUB, increase KRKTE to compensate, so that you still have good fuel trim on idle.
Repeat this process until you can slowly increase the RPM on hot idle and the fuel trim doesn't drift away.

And you're pretty much done. The rest compensate using FKKVS. Beware of large changes (more than 5% on high RPM), this most likely means your fuel pressure is dropping -> verify with a fuel pressure gauge.
Make sure you do not make any sudden movements/load changes, as your tip-in/tip-out enrichment might not be correct - those can be adjusted via KFBAKL/KFVAKL by making sharp throttle movements and observing what actual lambda is doing, but only after you have set KRKTE and TVUB correctly.

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LAMFAWKR, did anyone else find this variable funny?
hiszpan995
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« Reply #310 on: October 19, 2022, 04:06:24 AM »


if you have appropriate values for TVUB from a datasheet, you can either interpolate them if the voltages don't match, or change the axis on TVUB to make them match.


I have described my TVUB as temperature dependence to ms  Huh

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blairl
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« Reply #311 on: October 19, 2022, 06:43:06 AM »

The BFV damos I have is a mess, it's probably the same one you're using.  There are many mistakes / inaccuracies in the definitions.  If you're not sure if what you're working with is correct, it helps to check it against a bin and def that are done properly.  The 018CB bin/def floating around here is pretty good from what I recall, maybe try comparing to that.
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LAMFAWKR, did anyone else find this variable funny?
hiszpan995
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« Reply #312 on: October 19, 2022, 07:12:40 AM »

The BFV damos I have is a mess, it's probably the same one you're using.  There are many mistakes / inaccuracies in the definitions.  If you're not sure if what you're working with is correct, it helps to check it against a bin and def that are done properly.  The 018CB bin/def floating around here is pretty good from what I recall, maybe try comparing to that.
sorry for the confusion with the BFV that's what I called the modification to my AMK 1ML906032.  (this is the basic soft and mappack for modifying my ECU due to the fact that my unit is AMU. The reason for this was the switch to the LSU 4.2 lambda probe for AFR)
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JeanAwt
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« Reply #313 on: February 18, 2023, 05:02:03 AM »

Hi
i am trying to get 0280158117 to work on 1.8tAWT
but she drowns.
Do not start

krkte 0.0550
tvub
8v 2.1843
10v 1.4348
12v 1.0401
14v 0.7894
16v 0.6988
TEMIN/VA 0.48

my starting setting is rotten? or I may have a leaky injector...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 05:13:00 AM by JeanAwt » Logged

A4 B5 avant 1.8T 2000 NO QUATTRO
ratosluaf
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« Reply #314 on: May 17, 2023, 11:05:57 PM »

0280158123 aka porsche 997 630cc injectors datasheet, taken from another topic:
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