Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards

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tbm

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	Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « on: October 08, 2013, 03:25:45 PM »

Hi Guys,

I have been trying to overcome ignition retards issue (torque intervention) at low and middle rpm range for some time and at last decided to ask for your advices.

So I have AUQ engine with HN-box, GT28RS and S4 Bosch MAF, huge intercooler and non-stock intake. When the MAF was installed I calculated KFMIRL and KFMIOP for my requested boost 1.3 bar , moved MLHFM, MLOFS, KFMLDMX maps from A-box bin file. After MAF installation I noticed ignition retards at low and middle rpm range about 6-9 degrees. A lot of time was spent for analize log files and too much litters of gasoline were burned. And in order to overcome ignition retards I had to increase IRL map up to absolutely unreal values because of this now I have many other issues like unstable idle, too hight idle rpm when the engine is cold, hesitated car on the first gear etc. The table is here https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrqikkfb235gi48/kfmirl.xlsx

In addition: requested AFR and actual AFR is the practically the same on retarded ranges.

And the main question: Guys, does anyone have any thoughts why this happens? How can I overcome ignition retards (torque monitor intervention) without unreal IRL?

Thanks in advance!


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catbed

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 05:12:21 PM »

How did you calculate IOP and IRL? You should leave the lower ~half of IRL stock and scale up the last few columns for your new load. Then re-scale IOPs axis for the new load.


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terminator

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 05:14:28 PM »

If I understand you right, you need increase KFKEF and RKRMXN... but retardation is a good thing, it protects your engine from damage Undecided

catbed +1


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tbm

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 11:19:41 PM »

Quote from: catbed on October 08, 2013, 05:12:21 PM

How did you calculate IOP and IRL?

I calculated IOP and IRL by myself and by "ME7 tuner wizard" as well the same result.

Quote from: catbed on October 08, 2013, 05:12:21 PM

You should leave the lower ~half of IRL stock and scale up the last few columns for your new load.

I also thought like you and at first I make IRL as you said "leave the lower ~half of IRL stock and scale up the last few columns" but I had a lot of retards and I had to increase IRL table at the lower half when I had a lot of retards.

Quote from: catbed on October 08, 2013, 05:12:21 PM

Then re-scale IOPs axis for the new load.

Yea sure, I've forgot to write I rescaled IRL axis for my load.


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ddillenger

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #4 on: October 08, 2013, 11:21:54 PM »

I want to see the file you had lots of retards with.

IOP and IRL as you had it please.


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tbm

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #5 on: October 08, 2013, 11:23:46 PM »

Quote from: terminator on October 08, 2013, 05:14:28 PM

If I understand you right, you need increase KFKEF and RKRMXN... but retardation is a good thing, it protects your engine from damage Undecided

catbed +1

It doesn't seem knock because knock sensors voltages were not high (absolutely not high) and retards disappeared when I increased my IRL.

I agree with you retards is good thing but only when it's needed.


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tbm

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 11:29:23 PM »

Quote from: ddillenger on October 08, 2013, 11:21:54 PM

I want to see the file you had lots of retards with.

IOP and IRL as you had it please.

Hi Daz!

Unfortunately I've erased old log file. I'll do it today.

Thanks in advance!


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ddillenger

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 11:34:30 PM »

I don't want to see the log, I want to see your tune Tongue


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tbm

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 11:46:57 PM »

Quote from: ddillenger on October 08, 2013, 11:34:30 PM

I don't want to see the log, I want to see your tune Tongue

Oh, I see

With retards https://www.dropbox.com/s/mcqilq3o9t8y1cc/TorqMon-with-retards.bin
Without retards https://www.dropbox.com/s/wiiazz5vt3y2lon/TorqMon-without-retards.bin
MAP pack https://www.dropbox.com/s/3mb5kboy92ub7ga/Skoda_Octavia.kp


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ddillenger

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #9 on: October 09, 2013, 12:43:11 AM »

LDRXN=193
IRL=190

Take a look at the values in a stock file.

What was the actual load that was logged? Desired? I find it hard to believe you weren't exceeding 190 with a GT28R. I mean, K04 cars do that.

How about inter/extrapolating KFZWOP/2 since you drastically changed the axis? That, and IOP is not great. Don't rely on the tuner wizard, it takes maybe 5 minutes to do it right.

Give this a shot. It's your file with a proper IOP/IRL relationship, recalculated ZWOP/2 and MDS tables in addition to fixing some other whatnot that I noticed. I honestly would have went further, but I had to draw the line somewhere. Shouldn't get any sort of intervention. It was a quick and dirty edit, not responsible......

You get the point, flash at your own risk.


« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 01:31:30 AM by ddillenger »	Logged

tbm

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #10 on: October 09, 2013, 05:18:30 AM »

Quote from: ddillenger on October 09, 2013, 12:43:11 AM

LDRXN=193
IRL=190

Take a look at the values in a stock file.

In stock file LDRXN=135 and IRL=about 182.
In my file IRL little bit more than LDRXN as well

But I was pretty sure that LDRXN cuts load and my LDRXN is more than IRL.

Quote from: ddillenger on October 09, 2013, 12:43:11 AM

What was the actual load that was logged? Desired? I find it hard to believe you weren't exceeding 190 with a GT28R. I mean, K04 cars do that.

You are right my rl_w is more than requested load.
max(rl_w) = 204
max(rl) = 191.2
max(rlmx_w)=195

But I'd like to notice retards happen at middle rpm range from 1500 till 2800-3000 rpm.

Quote from: ddillenger on October 09, 2013, 12:43:11 AM

How about inter/extrapolating KFZWOP/2 since you drastically changed the axis? That, and IOP is not great. Don't rely on the tuner wizard, it takes maybe 5 minutes to do it right.

I didn't touch KFZWOP/2 and KFMDS. I thought at first I should overcome timing intervention and after that adjust all other tables.

Quote from: ddillenger on October 09, 2013, 12:43:11 AM

Give this a shot. It's your file with a proper IOP/IRL relationship, recalculated ZWOP/2 and MDS tables in addition to fixing some other whatnot that I noticed. I honestly would have went further, but I had to draw the line somewhere. Shouldn't get any sort of intervention. It was a quick and dirty edit, not responsible......

Could you explain why my IOP/IRL interpolation/invert wasn't correct?

Thanks a lot for your efforts! I'll move all your changes into my file and try.

Now I know that I was mistaken and I should adjusted all maps together IOP/IRL, *ZWOP* and MDS.


« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 05:22:33 AM by tbm »	Logged

ddillenger

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #11 on: October 09, 2013, 12:52:51 PM »

Please don't move any changes. Run the file I uploaded. It's YOUR file to begin with. If you have issues, how will I know you found all of the changes?


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tbm

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 12:59:17 PM »

Quote from: ddillenger on October 09, 2013, 12:52:51 PM

Please don't move any changes. Run the file I uploaded. It's YOUR file to begin with. If you have issues, how will I know you found all of the changes?

I use connect windows in WinOLS that's why I can't miss the changes. Wink

Anyway I'll try file from you.
Again, thanks a lot for your efforts!

Could you explain why my IRL/IOP were wrong? Why did you change KFZWOP?

Thanks in advance!


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catbed

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #13 on: October 09, 2013, 02:53:06 PM »

Quote from: tbm on October 09, 2013, 12:59:17 PM

I use connect windows in WinOLS that's why I can't miss the changes. Wink

Anyway I'll try file from you.
Again, thanks a lot for your efforts!

Could you explain why my IRL/IOP were wrong? Why did you change KFZWOP?

Thanks in advance!

ZWOP needs changing because it shares the load axis with IOP.


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tbm

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	Re: Unreal KFMIRL values to overcome ignition retards « Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 11:35:26 PM »

Quote from: catbed on October 09, 2013, 02:53:06 PM

ZWOP needs changing because it shares the load axis with IOP.

But retard appear at range axis which wasn't changed. I mean low load rpm. I just trying to find out how it can be related to retards.


« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 12:26:48 PM by tbm »	Logged

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