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Author Topic: Galletto writing: a 800BB bin onto a 800BT chip?  (Read 5864 times)
elRey
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« on: March 19, 2011, 08:20:58 PM »

I'm trying flash yet another 1.8t file onto a 2.0L ecu. the first file worked great. But both ECUs had 29f800BT chips. This second 1.8T file I trying to flash is an ori I downloaded. I don't know if it's from a BT or BB ECU.

For arguuement's sake, say it's from a BB chip. Can I flash a bin from a BB chip onto a BT chip via Galletto (or Nefmoto Flashing SW)? Unfortnately all my computers are XP and not Vista+.

The flash went fine. First over OBD. Then in bode mode. But once the software was flashed I could only flash/read in boot mode. And VAGCOM would not connect.

Thanks,
Rey
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 08:22:30 PM by elRey » Logged
eliotroyano
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 09:57:33 PM »

Friend although both flash eeproms appears to be similar , "B" or "T" indicates the boot code sector location, B=botton or T=top. In other words is the location where the data/software starts to run by ecu's processor. Using a different flash eeprom doesn't work because the ecu can't find the boot sector where it should be. That said "BB" data should be in the BB flash eeprom and "BT" data in the BT one. Solution force ECU in boot mode and try to flash to OEM again. If that doesn't work you will need to desolder the flash eeprom and reflash it with a programmer.
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hartklep
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2011, 01:26:19 AM »


That's right I had the same problem.
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setzi62
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2011, 05:13:38 AM »

"B" or "T" indicates the boot code sector location, B=botton or T=top.
In other words is the location where the data/software starts to run by ecu's processor. Using a different flash eeprom doesn't work because the ecu can't find the boot sector where it should be.
That is not fully correct. The ECU always starts running at address 0 from the internal
bootrom and that is independent of the used flash type. BB or BT variant is only relevant
if the ecu software itself shall erase sectors of the flash, i.e. if you want to program via OBD.
The ME7.5 standard code is only prepared to erase sectors of BB type chips. But during
normal operation the ecu will not recognize whether BB or BT flash is used.

If you have an ecu that comes with BT type flash already out of the factory, this would
mean that also the internal bootrom is different from the standard ME7.5 one.
Loading a standard ME7.5 flash image on such an ecu could then probably not work due
to compatibility issues between flash image and internal bootrom.
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eliotroyano
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 10:39:45 AM »

"B" or "T" indicates the boot code sector location, B=botton or T=top.
In other words is the location where the data/software starts to run by ecu's processor. Using a different flash eeprom doesn't work because the ecu can't find the boot sector where it should be.
That is not fully correct. The ECU always starts running at address 0 from the internal
bootrom and that is independent of the used flash type. BB or BT variant is only relevant
if the ecu software itself shall erase sectors of the flash, i.e. if you want to program via OBD.
The ME7.5 standard code is only prepared to erase sectors of BB type chips. But during
normal operation the ecu will not recognize whether BB or BT flash is used.

If you have an ecu that comes with BT type flash already out of the factory, this would
mean that also the internal bootrom is different from the standard ME7.5 one.
Loading a standard ME7.5 flash image on such an ecu could then probably not work due
to compatibility issues between flash image and internal bootrom.
setzi62 thanks a lot for extend my idea, but that sends me into a big doubt, how can we know if the internal flash eeprom uses top boot sector instead bottom one, without see the eeprom code itself? If have check the ECUs that I have and M383, M592 and ME75 like you said are "BB" one then which could be "BT"? or it depends from flash image itself not Motronic family?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 10:41:48 AM by eliotroyano » Logged
setzi62
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 03:42:58 AM »

I would not expect that there have been delivered mixtures between BB and BT inside the
same ecu family (speaking for ME7.1 and ME7.5). Don't know which ecu family would
come originally with an BT chip, but maybe elRey can tell if he had an ecu with original BT
or if the chip was resoldered.
Some people here in the forum that have already opened lots of ecus and could tell
what they found inside different ecu families.
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elRey
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 02:57:50 PM »

I can confirm these:

06A906032KR -> BT
06A906032FP -> BT
06A906032FN -> BT

So, is everyone saying there's no way to flash a BB bin onto a BT chip (and visa-versa) regardless of read/flash methods?


Edit: this was WRONG. These were BB chips
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 09:17:10 AM by elRey » Logged
Tony@NefMoto
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 03:06:33 PM »

You can flash a BT onto a BB and vice versa, but you will likely break the OBD flashing abilities. Flash erasing is the only feature that relies on the sector layouts of the flash chips.
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elRey
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 03:18:40 PM »

You can flash a BT onto a BB and vice versa, but you will likely break the OBD flashing abilities. Flash erasing is the only feature that relies on the sector layouts of the flash chips.

Hmm. Then I need to look elsewhere for why my 4B0906018DA -> 06A906032FN flashed but did not work (no communication).

Thanks,
Rey
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eliotroyano
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 09:08:39 PM »

You can flash a BT onto a BB and vice versa, but you will likely break the OBD flashing abilities. Flash erasing is the only feature that relies on the sector layouts of the flash chips.
Hmm. Then I need to look elsewhere for why my 4B0906018DA -> 06A906032FN flashed but did not work (no communication).
Thanks,
Rey
I found a VW Passat B5 1.8T AWM 4B0906018DA 0261207931 file and is from a 29F800BB flash eeprom. That could explain why you are loosing communication with the ECU.
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setzi62
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 04:52:51 AM »

I can confirm these:

06A906032KR -> BT
06A906032FP -> BT
06A906032FN -> BT
I looked at the image 06A906032KR from 1.8T AWP and it contains the same code as all the other
800BB based ME7.5 images. Was the ECU really shipped with an original 800BT and this image on it?
For the FP and FN which come from the 2.0l engine I did not find an original image to have a look at.
Still I wonder why Bosch should solder 800BT on some of their ECU's when the bootrom code
inside the C167 has only a table for BB chips in the code.
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elRey
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 08:39:53 AM »

I'll post the FN and FP bins.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 09:17:35 AM by elRey » Logged
elRey
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2011, 09:16:23 AM »

I humbly apologize! I've been posting misinformation.

I just checked the FP and FN ECUs and they do in fact have BB chips. And I check the KR EC, but I'm going to guess it has a BB chip as well. The reason I assumed they were BT chips was because of the Galletto. When I read ECU data in Galletto it display chip: 29F800BT even though I have 29F800BB selected.

Sorry!
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setzi62
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2011, 02:14:46 AM »

I just checked the FP and FN ECUs and they do in fact have BB chips. And I check the KR EC, but I'm going to guess it has a BB chip as well.
Well, now it fits again. I really doubt that there are ME7 shipped with 800BT originally on the board.

Hmm. Then I need to look elsewhere for why my 4B0906018DA -> 06A906032FN flashed but did not work (no communication).

Thanks,
Rey

I can now explain why the 4B0906018DA -> 06A906032FN  can't work, it was quite obvious
but I was on the wrong track due to this BB <-> BT discussion.
The reason is just a bootrom version mismatch. There exist two different bootrom
main version for ME7.5, 05.xx and 06.xx (at least I did not see more up to today).
These two are NOT compatible. An application (flash image) build for version 06.XX can NOT
run on an ECU with bootrom version 05.XX embedded in the C167, and vice versa!
For ME7.1 only 05.XX seems to be used, so there this problem should never happen.

If you look at the information of me7check, you'll see the problem:
ME7Check v1.07 (c) mki, 06/2004-10/2010
Checking file awm.bin (size=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = 06.02
-> EPK = 40/1/ME7.5/3/4016.31//24E/Dst06o/071002//
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261207931'         (SSECUHN)         
   - '1037366920'         (SSECUSN)         
   - '4B0906018DA '       (VAG part number)
 
ME7Check v1.07 (c) mki, 06/2004-10/2010
Checking file 032kr.bin (size=1048576)
Reading Version Strings...
-> Bootrom Version = 05.12
-> EPK = 42/1/ME7.5/120/4518.KA//24B/DstA3o/150802/
-> Contents of ECUID data table:
   - '0261207910'         (SSECUHN)         
   - '1037366816'         (SSECUSN)         
   - '06A906032KR '       (VAG part number)

Conclusion is: if you want to use ME7.5 images of different ecus, you have to keep in mind
that there are two different sw streams which can't be interchanged.

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tao13
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 11:44:54 PM »

I confirm the same thing
I tried to wrote the file from AUQ and BAM ecu (boot rom 5.12) to an AWT ecu (boot rom 6.02) and not start , ecu can not comunicate.
I tried to pair with eeprom files but the same thing, not start.
Both ecu had 29f800BB flash.
Maybe the boot version had other structure.
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