oldcarguy85
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« on: November 13, 2013, 11:23:13 AM »
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Hi all,
First -- thanks to all who have been extremely helpful in sorting out all my recent issues.
This is an AWW 1.8T ECU: 06A906032DL
I have done a basic 'stage 1' tune that i will attach later (i'm at work now). I've added some fueling to LAMFA in the last column, and made changes to last row of KFMIOP and KFMIRL to support LDRXN maxing out around 200. basically, i haven't touched any part throttle things (except maybe max pressure ratio table).
Part throttle driving at almost any RPM gives me initial overbooost of about 3-4psi. During and after the inital overboost the AFR reading goes WAYYYY lean (like past O2 sensor limits). I can't for the life of me figure out why this is happening. the AFR comes back to request after a few seconds, but the driveability is terrible when this happens and it makes no sense to me. I'm not sure if hte overboost and AFR are related. I would think ME7 could handle the overboost. The actual overboost could be caused by a bad or partially working wastegate actuator or maybe a fauly n249, but the lean condition makes no sense to me.
Sorry i don't have logs or the tune at the moment -- i can upload them tonight.
Thanks in advance for any help!
-Jordan
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 12:56:33 PM »
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is the LAMFA the only thing you've touched as far as fueling goes? You're going to need to go more then that.
What is your fueling strategy like right now if there is more the just LAMFA changes? If not, you have to remember that the ECU's stock programming is designed to run lambda 1 at all times, for as long as possible (which is quite long at stock boost levels). VW also decided not to use KR fueling, but only rely on knock intervention (ign angle reduction) and then BTS fueling for protection under extended high load periods.
That said, if only load was changed in your case (IOP/IRL/LDRXN) and the car is going off the scale lean I would assume that you've made an error somewhere (as long as this doesn't happen if the ECU is stock on your car).
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oldcarguy85
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 01:08:14 PM »
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I don't believe i made any other fueling changes aside from last two columns of LAMFA and i think i added a bit in the last row of BTS (which wouldn't affect this i suppose). What other changes woudl you suggest? I definitely need to do more reading on fueling. From the wiki, I'm guissing this is what I need to look at? KFKHFM, KFLF - fix up individual rich/lean areas, and WOT fueling issues. |
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oldcarguy85
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 01:25:22 PM »
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I think i've also confused myself on knock recognition based fueling. Is knock recognition fueling pre-emptive, or will it only be used if knock is detected? If it's only when knock is detected, i really don't like that approach and that leaves LAMFA and BTS from what i understand. I guess i need to log and see if i'm hitting the BTS threshold when i get this lean condition. If so, i shoudl be able to add fuel with BTS, right?
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Beaviz
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2013, 02:06:04 AM »
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Usually BTS is rich stock and LAMFA is lean. Most people make LAMFA richer from the boost initiates and up to prevent timing pull and switching to BTS fast.
Regarding your overboost you might have to look at KFLDIMX if you have not touched that yet.
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« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 02:10:10 AM by Beaviz »
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 06:24:25 AM »
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I don't believe i made any other fueling changes aside from last two columns of LAMFA and i think i added a bit in the last row of BTS (which wouldn't affect this i suppose). What other changes woudl you suggest? I definitely need to do more reading on fueling.
From the wiki, I'm guissing this is what I need to look at?
If your injectors + MAF is stock you shouldn't have to touch either of them. Nothing anyone says is going to help you since you still haven't posted logs, the problem could be elsewhere as I don't understand why you would have such a lean spike condition in the first place. |
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userpike
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 08:04:48 AM »
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If your injectors + MAF is stock you shouldn't have to touch either of them.
Nothing anyone says is going to help you since you still haven't posted logs, the problem could be elsewhere as I don't understand why you would have such a lean spike condition in the first place.
I'm guessing a restrictive stock FPR or weak fuel pump. I think this guy said he replaced an O-ring on his FPR and the car got better in another thread, haven't seen logs after the fact yet though. Alot of the big name tuners APR, GIAC, REVO, UNITRONICS, etc require a switch out of the stock FPR to at least a 4bar OEM unit on thier tunes that still utilize the stock injectors. They might be on to something.. |
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oldcarguy85
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 08:17:18 AM »
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Sorry for the delay everyone. I'll try to post logs and the tune today.
I did replace fuel pump and FPR, and yes, i saw full throttle problem solved, but this is a part-throttle issue. I agree, i think a 4 bar FPR would be smart, but i don't think it will make any difference at < 14psi (which is where i see this problem). Just in driving the car, i really don't think the overboost is the issue. Yes, it goes past where it should, but only, say, to 14psi for a second when it should be at 10psi. I'm leaning towards a mechanical failure. I would normally think boost leak, but that would cause a rich condition. Maybe MAF is on the way out. I'll have to do a log and post it.
Thanks for all the help!
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oldcarguy85
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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 06:59:25 AM »
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ok -- i know it's been a while... but i finally have some logs. I think i may be way off on this problem. I'm fairly certain the fuel system is working correctly. AFR actually looks good. I have switched to a 4bar FPR and changed KRKTE to .08936 and car performs exactly the same (except i dialed in some more boost in the high RPMS, but that's unrelated).
I can fairly easily recreate the problem if i get in 3rd gear or above, boost to about 15 psi, then pull out of the pedal to maybe 1/3 throttle. It holds at about 10psi of boost, but runs like shit and sputters and feels like its misfiring badly. So, i replaced plugs (brk7es gapped at .028), replaced the coil wiring harness with the VW overlay harness, replaced all coils and nothing changed. I've replaced the fuel pump and i thought it made a difference, but it actualyl didn't. I think i have had two seperate issues with this car -- one being fueling in higher RPMs and one being this odd part throttle problem. Fueling seems good and car runs well under full throttle for the most part.
I have no CEL and no codes.
Log
-does the correlation between throttle pedal and throttle plate angle look odd to anyone?
-AFR looks good
-the log hardly shows the problem at all, but i can assure you, it was running terribly during this log after 1.5-2 seconds in.
-its VERY odd to me that after i reduce boost/pedal i get MUCH higher injector duty cycle. thoughts?
as always, any help is greatly appreciated.
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oldcarguy85
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 07:35:39 AM »
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well -- i feel a bit stupid -- i didn't even look at misfires in the log. Cylinder 1 misfires regularly during the poor running part. I will replace that coil with another and see if it changes anything...
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oldcarguy85
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 11:08:22 AM »
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well -- i feel a bit stupid -- i didn't even look at misfires in the log. Cylinder 1 misfires regularly during the poor running part. I will replace that coil with another and see if it changes anything...
well -- now i don't feel so stupid lol. I replaced the coil with a known good coil and have the same condition. The wiring is not an issue as i replaced the whole harness last night. Plugs were replaced yesterday as well. All the plugs looked fairly equal as far as color goes. I'd think if there was a bad injector on cylinder 1 i'd see a difference in the plugs. Injectors are really the only thing left that i can think of. Anyone have any ideas? |
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ddillenger
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 11:15:07 AM »
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More boost requires colder plugs and a decreased gap to prevent misfires. What are you running?
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
Email/Google chat:
DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com
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oldcarguy85
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 11:18:22 AM »
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More boost requires colder plugs and a decreased gap to prevent misfires. What are you running?
BRK7Es with .028 gap |
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oldcarguy85
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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2013, 08:51:53 AM »
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Just a minor update --
The problem is defietnely gettign worse. Car is hardly driveable part throttle now, which would indicate to me maybe a boost leak. I THOUGHT i coudl rule that out, but when i do a boost leak test, i generally remove the MAF and pressurive where the MAF attaches. This, by nature, would not find a leak in the diverter valve. I did have a small whistle the other day under boost, which i presumed was just a small boost leak, but it went away (so maybe the leak got worse). I'll need to do another boost leak test. Question is, could a bad diverter valve be causing this? I'm defientely seeing slower boost build-up, but that could also be because it's misfiring while trying to build boost. I STILL have no CEL and no codes....
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userpike
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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2013, 11:09:47 AM »
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Just a minor update --
The problem is defietnely gettign worse. Car is hardly driveable part throttle now, which would indicate to me maybe a boost leak. I THOUGHT i coudl rule that out, but when i do a boost leak test, i generally remove the MAF and pressurive where the MAF attaches. This, by nature, would not find a leak in the diverter valve. I did have a small whistle the other day under boost, which i presumed was just a small boost leak, but it went away (so maybe the leak got worse). I'll need to do another boost leak test. Question is, could a bad diverter valve be causing this? I'm defientely seeing slower boost build-up, but that could also be because it's misfiring while trying to build boost. I STILL have no CEL and no codes....
I ordered one of those vacuum blocks off ebay for like 25 bucks . it has assorted barbed fittings and plugs and some other parts. my intention is to use it for boost leak testing. That way I don't have to hear the air come out the oil filler hole and dipstick tube from blow by from some of the valves being open. I will still have to plug the "hockey puck"'s hole in the TIP and I will detach all lines from the intake, plug the boost hose which is attached to the throttle body. This will effectively pressurize eveything that sees boost except the throttle body, intake manifold itself and crank case. After you figure out any leaks its easy to test the throttle body and intake mani/injectors the traditional method of boost leak testing for the 1.8t. If you've done some deletes, maybe DTC codes aren't showing up because of that. |
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