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Author Topic: Definition and Turbo Boost Help Please!!!  (Read 12757 times)
1.8TA4
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« on: November 28, 2013, 07:44:31 PM »

Hey,
Sorry if this may sound amateur but I am in the process of learning a ton about flashing ECUs and a noob about WinOLS. I have a 2001 Audi A4 1.8T AWM with a 4B0906018M and really have picked up on learning about tuning.

The 018M ECUs can also be swapped out for a 4B0906018CH.
I have definitions for the 018CH file along with a 018CH tuned file which is posted on this forum, but the map locations on the hexdumps are not the same and I cannot use the 018CH definition for the 018M file, but since the files have all the maps in the same location, is it safe to assume that the defined map on one defines the same map on the other? The 2D lines look like they are lined up 100%.




Second Question:

I am running on stock tune, and I hate the fact that off the shelf tunes are around $600 for my car.
I understand that we simply cannot turn up the boost and expect results.

Since the ECU is already programmed to adjust fueling to conditions read by the MAP, MAF, IAT, and knock sensors, can increasing boost by a few PSI cause major problems for the ECU? If boost would be increased to around 17 PSI (10-12 Stock), the Overboost Limit at 14.7 (KFDLULS) would have to be increased. Will the Wideband be able to tell the ECU to adjust AFRs, fueling, and timing?

I read elsewhere that the Engine Load Desired (KFMIRL) would need to be increased to request for higher boost. Additionally I was also told the MAF linerization would need to be scaled up as KFMIRL relies on MAF readings. Please correct me if I am wrong, and please do chime in with any suggestions.

So summing it up, to increase power amount to a Stage 1 tune,

Increase Engine Load Desired, to increase boost
Scale up MAF Linerization, to amount increased demand for engine load
Increase Overboost Limit, to allow more boost
Question: Is Timing, AFR, and Fueling okay?

My car never runs lean at 12 PSI with good AFRs around 14.7 to 13.9 at WOT

I know some of these things I should know, but I am still learning. Thank you for reading, look forward to any responses.  Smiley
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kaganader
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 08:15:04 PM »

"My car never runs lean at 12 PSI with good AFRs around 14.7 to 13.9 at WOT "

That statement must be wrong, how is the car not knocking and detonating being at 13.9-14.7 afr WOT @ 12psi... 12psi is roughly 180kpa, I would be targeting a richer afr on pump fuel than 13.9-stoichiometric with loads exceeding 120kpa. As Boost is increased, timing and afr must also be adjusted accordingly to achieve a balanced combustion pressure (bmep (Brake Mean Effective Pressure)). Plus more fuel will act as a cooling agent, cooling the valves and the air charge that enters the combustion chamber.

I've never tuned any VW or Audi(Done many Evos, STI, DSMs, Chevys) but all engines follow the same laws of physic.

Since your ecu is a 4B0906018M and you have the 4B0906018CH bin and definitions for that ecu, open both up in WinOLS and compare both files and line up the maps and there locations, then transfer map structure to your ecu bin that you have pulled from your car. If they line up 100% then all you got to do is transfer map structure to your ecu file, if not play around a bit to line them up and transfer it over to yours. That is what I did with a r32 file & definition to line up and match as many map structures to my sisters vr6 jetta, since I could not find a defined ols for my sisters ecu.
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1.8TA4
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2013, 09:02:57 PM »

"My car never runs lean at 12 PSI with good AFRs around 14.7 to 13.9 at WOT "

That statement must be wrong, how is the car not knocking and detonating being at 13.9-14.7 afr WOT @ 12psi... 12psi is roughly 180kpa, I would be targeting a richer afr on pump fuel than 13.9-stoichiometric with loads exceeding 120kpa. As Boost is increased, timing and afr must also be adjusted accordingly to achieve a balanced combustion pressure (bmep (Brake Mean Effective Pressure)). Plus more fuel will act as a cooling agent, cooling the valves and the air charge that enters the combustion chamber.

I've never tuned any VW or Audi(Done many Evos, STI, DSMs, Chevys) but all engines follow the same laws of physic.

Since your ecu is a 4B0906018M and you have the 4B0906018CH bin and definitions for that ecu, open both up in WinOLS and compare both files and line up the maps and there locations, then transfer map structure to your ecu bin that you have pulled from your car. If they line up 100% then all you got to do is transfer map structure to your ecu file, if not play around a bit to line them up and transfer it over to yours. That is what I did with a r32 file & definition to line up and match as many map structures to my sisters vr6 jetta, since I could not find a defined ols for my sisters ecu.

Hi, thank you very much for your response. Excuse my statement, I didn't mean I was running around 14.7 at WOT  Grin its in the lower 13s and sometimes high 12s, was a guestimate from the total times I peek at my screen while driving. My ECU is also advancing the timing by 12-20 degrees at WOT without reducing the STFT or throttle cut so its not like my car can't handle the boost it is currently running. Not knocking at all, ignition is occurring when it should, and pretty sure I would pull a knock code with VCDS. I will pull some logs just to reassure myself.

Love the R32, like the engine setup and overall performance.

I guess one question to bounce at is in regards to engine dynamics. Since my car's stock ecu can maintain and adjust AFRs, Timing Advance/Retard, and fuel trims, will it be able to adjust conditions if the Engine Load is higher (More Boost) if I increase the Overboost Limit?

For example, Unitronic and APR Stage 1 tunes gain anywhere from 20-30 hp. The boost is increased all the way up 17-19 peak. Now I feel as if these tunes raise boost/max engine load request, raise overboost limits, and MAF vs. RPM/ Engine Load Map along with advancing the timing and rich AFRs to compensate for higher boost. Am I correct in this thinking?

Stage 1=

Increase Engine Load Demand / MAF Linerization to RPM and Engine Load
Increase Overboost Limit
Advance Timing
Richen Fuel Mixture to allow for more fuel to be burnt with higher turbo pressure // Fueling


But if my car is able to adapt to present conditions, do all of these maps need to be changed in WinOLS? It's easy to increase boost through a Boost Controller running with the N75 Wastegate Actuator, but I am unsure about what the ECU is able to do outside of stock ranges.
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ddillenger
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« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 09:09:41 PM »

Do not touch the MAF scaling unless changing the MAF characteristics (sensor, size, etc)
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 09:47:05 PM »

Do not touch the MAF scaling unless changing the MAF characteristics (sensor, size, etc)

I just looked at MLHFM and you are 100% correct, those values will not be changed since I'm using stock 70mm housing. Are my statements correct in my last post regarding stock ECU capabilities and Stage 1 Tunes? If I can increase the Overboost Limit and simply increase the turbo's boost that'd be gravy
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 10:17:35 PM »

Mentally I can't take much more explaining tonight. Here is the best I can do.

Stage1:

LDRXN Limit to 160 or so and you won't really need to mess with KFLDIMX or KFLDRL
KFZW1 Reduce timing at peak load
LAMFA Add some fuel from 3000rpm on. Request an AFR of around 12:1
KFMLDMX Increase a bit, only at the peak airflow sections
KFMIRL/KFMIOP leave alone
KFDHBN leave alone as well
KFTARX Set to all 1's
KFDLULS you can increase a little bit, but there's no need for stage 1.

Then you should be safe to do some logging with ME7Logger and revise based on the results. Don't overcomplicate things with 5000 changes.


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ddillenger
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 10:19:21 PM »

It's worth noting, everyone has their own way, who's to say mine is right. Have fun and be safe.
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2013, 11:26:06 PM »

Mentally I can't take much more explaining tonight. Here is the best I can do.

Stage1:

LDRXN Limit to 160 or so and you won't really need to mess with KFLDIMX or KFLDRL
KFZW1 Reduce timing at peak load
LAMFA Add some fuel from 3000rpm on. Request an AFR of around 12:1
KFMLDMX Increase a bit, only at the peak airflow sections
KFMIRL/KFMIOP leave alone
KFDHBN leave alone as well
KFTARX Set to all 1's
KFDLULS you can increase a little bit, but there's no need for stage 1.

Then you should be safe to do some logging with ME7Logger and revise based on the results. Don't overcomplicate things with 5000 changes.




ddillenger, I owe you big time! Thank you so much for this information, it will keep me busy for the next couple weeks. I appreciate it a lot. Happy Thanksgiving, I am mentally exhausted as well, but you may know first hand what its like to have an itch to figure something out  Tongue

Tomorrow I will check out the maps and throw out any more questions, its been a long day indeed.

On a side note. Was LAMFA supposed to be LAMDA? After I get the maps figure out, gotta learn all about these things call CHECKSUMS  Undecided

I understand that the best way to do anything 100% right is subjective, but I like the advice of not overcomplicating with 5000 changes, trying to keep it simple, really doesn't seem like a daunting task to do a basic tune of my 1.8T
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prj
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2013, 07:24:41 AM »

IOP needs modding on almost all 1.8T.
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1.8TA4
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2013, 10:27:03 AM »

IOP needs modding on almost all 1.8T.

IOP as in KFIOP? Sorry I am still new to memorizing the map labels. So instead of raising LDRXN Max Specified Load, I should also have a look at the torque request maps KFMIRL and KFMIOP? So I am then assuming LDRXN is like a limiter, so the whole torque request map would need to be raised by a factor to suit the new raised max specified load.

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ddillenger
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2013, 10:44:03 AM »

PRJ cherishes a perfect calibration. KFMIOP does need work, but don't overcomplicate things until you're more familiar with tuning. Just follow my instructions and you'll be fine.
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2013, 12:55:44 PM »

IOP as in KFIOP? Sorry I am still new to memorizing the map labels. So instead of raising LDRXN Max Specified Load, I should also have a look at the torque request maps KFMIRL and KFMIOP? So I am then assuming LDRXN is like a limiter, so the whole torque request map would need to be raised by a factor to suit the new raised max specified load.

Yes, the ECU calculates cylinder filling from IOP/IRL and is capped by LDRXN. But like ddillenger said you shouldn't worry about it just yet. Just keep LDRXN below the max values of IRL and you will be fine.
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1.8TA4
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2013, 08:48:36 PM »

Thank you so much for the replies everyone, I've been learning a ton over the past few days. Now one thing I can't seem to locate is KFTARX, the definition file I am using to map my ecu has it looking like this.









Is it crucial to alter KFTARX Max Specified Load IAT Factor Map?
I guess as the IAT's increase due to higher boost/load it will influence my power output?
IAT's are around 100-120 Deg. Fahrenheit at WOT 75 Deg. Fahrenheit Ambient @ 11 PSI

One more question regarding KFZW and KMFLDMX:
By what factor should I decrease timing in the higher rev/power range? I imagine anything over 30 can be bad. Still need to increase the upper range of KMFLDMX









I also learned that my POS blue VCDS Vag Com cable isn't able to use different drivers and has some random chip in it, not the FT232RL. I am just using someone else's ECU file which is the exact same model Audi and engine as mine, but still I will refer to MY car's file when tuning.

THANKS!
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prj
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2013, 02:07:07 AM »

Yes, the ECU calculates cylinder filling from IOP/IRL and is capped by LDRXN. But like ddillenger said you shouldn't worry about it just yet. Just keep LDRXN below the max values of IRL and you will be fine.

Once again, IRL is not the problem, IOP is. The last axis point on most K03 1.8T is at 130.
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