MED 9.1 basics

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 26

« previous next »

Author

Topic: MED 9.1 basics (Read 318775 times)

Basano

Full Member

Karma: +90/-3
Offline

Offline

Posts: 192

	MED 9.1 basics « on: February 14, 2014, 10:02:30 AM »

Hi guys,

I wanted to check if I understood some basic principles (and they are pretty basic LOL). To begin with, I don’t have an ME7 background and my learnings are pretty much restricted to what we drive at home – 2.0 TFSI (hence my interest in MED9.1). I stress this is basic stuff and has been covered before in huge detail. I found it pretty fascinating though and wanted to get it down in one convenient place that I can come back to.

1)   I began by installing the WinOLS demo version from EVC.
2)   I read out the stock 2048kb flash from the ECU of the car via ODB.
3)   MED9.1 definitions files can be found here and here in the ECU Definition Files section.
4)   Now the definition files are not a perfect match to my flash, so it’s a manual process of aligning my own flash to a similar, already defined flash and transferring the maps over. Easier said than done especially if you’ve never seen it before, but this contribution helped me.
5)   Bosch VAG MED9.1 FDEF
6)   The S4wiki is invaluable to getting started and explains the fundamentals very well (like load

). I also found this write-up on the Audi TT 1.8T Bosch Motronic ME7.x again helped me with the basics. A lot of effort in both.
7) The MED9.1 threads here and here in the tuning section contain a huge amount of info. Every time I go through them I spot something new.

A big thank you to all of you who created those original posts! That's how new people like me can get started Grin

Question. Here’s the locations of the maps in my stock binary, as far as I can make out. Did I get the locations correct? They are very similar to the locations Rarak posted up at the start of his MED9.1 thread.


« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 10:04:32 AM by Basano »	Logged

Basano

Full Member

Karma: +90/-3
Offline

Offline

Posts: 192

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 10:05:02 AM »

Lots of theory, let's put it into practice!

From the S4wiki:

ME7.1 doesn't really have a "boost" table. It does everything based on "specified load".

First, make sure the 100% torque request (rtlsol) row requests enough load:
KFMIRL - specified load

Specified load/boost will never exceed these limits:
LDRXN - maximum specified load
KFLDHBN - maximum requested pressure ratio

Specifically, on a full throttle pull, your boost profile will follow LDRXN

If I did get the location of those maps correct then here’s what they contain in my flash:

KFMIRL - specified load

RPM vs Requested Torque (%)	500	700	800	1000	1240	1520	2000	2520	3000	3520	4000	4520	5000	5520	6000	6520
4.0009	11.4375	10.9453	10.7109	10.2188	9.7031	9.3047	8.8828	8.6250	8.5313	8.5078	8.5313	8.5078	8.4375	8.2734	8.0625	7.8281
5.9998	15.7266	15.2813	15.0703	14.6250	14.1094	13.6875	13.1719	12.8438	12.6563	12.5859	12.5625	12.4922	12.3516	12.1406	11.9063	11.6250
8.0002	19.9922	19.6172	19.4297	18.9844	18.5391	18.0703	17.4844	17.0391	16.8047	16.6875	16.5938	16.4531	16.2891	16.0313	15.7500	15.4219
13.9999	32.7188	32.6016	32.5547	32.3672	31.8281	31.1719	30.3047	29.6719	29.2500	28.9219	28.6641	28.3594	28.0313	27.6563	27.2813	26.8359
19.9997	45.4219	45.3047	45.2344	45.0469	44.6953	44.1094	43.1484	42.3516	41.7656	41.2031	40.7109	40.2188	39.7500	39.2578	38.7891	38.2500
30.0003	66.6563	66.3750	66.2344	66.0000	65.8594	65.3203	64.3359	63.3984	62.5313	61.4531	60.5391	59.7422	59.1563	58.6172	58.1016	57.5391
39.9994	88.1250	87.5391	87.2578	86.7422	86.2969	86.0156	85.1016	83.8359	82.5703	81.2578	80.1797	79.3359	78.7969	78.3047	77.9063	77.5313
50.0000	109.9922	109.4766	109.1953	108.7031	108.1406	107.5781	106.2891	104.4609	102.7969	101.3672	100.3359	99.5859	99.2109	99.0469	99.0703	99.3281
60.0006	132.3516	131.9766	131.8125	131.4375	130.9688	130.3125	128.8828	126.7500	124.6875	122.9531	121.7578	121.0313	120.8672	121.1719	121.8047	122.8359
69.9997	154.9453	154.7344	154.6172	154.3594	154.0313	153.5625	152.5078	150.6328	148.3828	146.1797	144.6563	143.6953	143.5781	144.1641	145.3594	147.1875
80.0003	177.6797	177.5859	177.5391	177.4219	177.2344	176.9297	176.0391	174.4688	172.3594	170.0859	168.3281	167.1563	166.9453	167.5547	168.7500	170.4375
90.0009	200.3203	200.3672	200.3906	200.4141	200.4141	200.2969	199.7109	198.4219	196.5234	194.1797	192.2109	190.8281	190.4531	191.0391	192.1875	193.6172

The last row is WOT and has plenty of demand (> 190%)

LDRXN - maximum specified load

RPM vs Load (%)	1000	1500	1750	1850	2000	2250	2500	3000	3500	4000	4500	5000	5500	6000	6600	6800
	100.0078	118.0078	125.0156	130.0078	140.0156	172.0078	172.0078	172.0078	172.0078	172.0078	175.0078	175.0078	175.0078	168.0000	158.0156	100.0078

Maximum allowed load here is going to be 172% to 175%. Even if I request 200%, I'll just get 175%.

KFLDHBN - maximum requested pressure ratio

RPM vs Temperature (°C)	2000	3000	4000	5000	5520	6000	6600	6760
-20.25	2.4063	2.4063	2.3750	2.3125	2.2188	2.0781	1.9219	1.7656
0.00	2.4063	2.4063	2.3750	2.3125	2.2188	2.0781	1.9219	1.7656
20.25	2.4063	2.4063	2.3750	2.3125	2.2188	2.0781	1.9219	1.7656
40.50	2.3594	2.3594	2.3438	2.2656	2.1719	2.0313	1.9219	1.7344
50.25	2.3281	2.3125	2.3125	2.2031	2.1094	2.0000	1.9063	1.7188
60.00	2.2813	2.2656	2.2656	2.1719	2.0781	1.9688	1.8750	1.6875
70.50	2.2344	2.2031	2.2031	2.1406	2.0469	1.9375	1.7969	1.6563
120.00	2.2188	2.1563	2.0938	2.0156	1.9219	1.7969	1.6406	1.4844


	Logged

Basano

Full Member

Karma: +90/-3
Offline

Offline

Posts: 192

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 10:06:44 AM »

I also took some VCDS logs from the car

Timestamp	Engine Speed	Intake Air Mass	Lambda Sensor - Current Value	Sender 2 for - Acc. Pedal Pos.	Throttle Drive - Angle Sensor 1	Median - injection timing	Current - Fuel Pressure	Engine Load - (specified)	Engine Load - (actual Value)	Boost Pressure - (specified)	Boost Pressure - (actual)	Rail Pressure - (actual)
1835.3	2800	23.75	1	17.6	10.2	1.02	4.12	171.4	30.1	590	1020	67.67
1835.74	2840	37.69	0.98	24.3	14.5	1.53	4.13	171.4	42.1	820	1050	77.12
1836.16	2840	59.03	0.99	32.2	20	2.04	4.16	171.4	63.9	1040	1140	87.81
1836.6	2880	92.53	1	96.5	70.2	3.57	4.16	171.4	114.3	2040	1390	95.62
1837.03	2960	109.97	0.97	99.6	99.2	4.84	4.16	171.4	155.6	2030	1840	100.56
1837.45	3040	113.17	0.93	99.6	98.8	5.61	4.12	171.4	169.2	2020	1960	106.76
1837.89	3120	117.28	0.89	99.6	98.8	5.87	4.15	171.4	172.2	2010	1980	109.69
1838.33	3200	122.19	0.88	99.6	98.8	5.87	4.17	171.4	174.4	1990	2000	109.67
1838.75	3280	122.75	0.89	99.6	98.8	5.87	4.19	171.4	173.7	1980	1990	109.22
1839.19	3400	125.28	0.88	99.6	98.8	5.87	4.2	171.4	171.4	1970	1960	110.11
1839.62	3480	126.75	0.88	99.6	98.8	5.87	4.2	171.4	169.2	1960	1930	109.99
1840.06	3560	129.5	0.89	99.6	98.8	5.61	4.19	171.4	166.9	1950	1910	109.16
1840.5	3640	130.58	0.88	99.6	98.8	5.61	4.18	171.4	166.9	1950	1920	109.52
1840.92	3720	131.58	0.88	99.6	98.8	5.61	4.17	171.4	165.4	1950	1900	109.67
1841.35	3800	137.67	0.89	99.6	98.8	5.61	4.17	171.4	164.7	1950	1910	110.44
1841.79	3880	140.31	0.9	99.6	98.8	5.61	4.12	171.4	168.4	1960	1930	111.08
1842.22	4000	144.33	0.89	99.6	98.8	5.61	4.11	171.4	168.4	1960	1950	109.1
1842.66	4080	147.06	0.89	99.6	98.8	5.87	4.04	171.4	169.2	1980	1960	110.06
1843.1	4080	72	0.88	99.6	98.8	5.87	4.08	172.2	168.4	1160	1780	109.3
1843.52	4080	8.14	0.91	0	10.2	0.77	4.4	172.2	19.5	280	1320	88.34
1843.96	4080	12.97	0.92	0	8.6	0.51	4.6	172.2	16.5	280	1120	87.31
1844.4	4040	13.89	0.99	0	9.4	0.51	4.36	171.4	16.5	280	1060	85.61
1844.83	4000	13.97	1.99	0	9.4	0	4.15	171.4	16.5	280	1040	85.05

Putting it all together, I can see that when I put my foot down at WOT the actual engine load increases until it reaches the specified engine load LDRXN and it’s then capped at around 172% (specified engine load), exactly as predicted by the maps!

I said it was basic stuff, but it was nice to actually see it happening Grin


	Logged

vdubnation

Turboman
Global Moderator
Sr. Member

Karma: +49/-2
Offline

Offline

Posts: 433

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 12:50:05 PM »

What did you use to read out the Ecu via OBD ? MPPS right ?


	Logged

prj

Hero Member

Karma: +1072/-480
Offline

Offline

Posts: 6035

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 04:25:55 PM »

Read the FDEF.
Or if you want to know the full truth, disassemble the code when uncertain.

My advice is - forget all the digested down information on forums, wikis and other things.
They are just the way someone sees things, and you seem like a smart enough guy to just follow reference documentation and make your own mind about how things work, there should mostly be no need to read anyone else's interpretation of things.

Of course knowing German does help.


	Logged

PM's will not be answered, so don't even try.
Log your car properly - WinOLS database - Tools/patches

nyet

Administrator
Hero Member

Karma: +607/-168
Offline

Offline

Posts: 12268

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #5 on: February 14, 2014, 04:40:05 PM »

Quote from: prj on February 14, 2014, 04:25:55 PM

Figuring things out is easy. Writing how you understand things in a way that others can read and understand is hard.

The latter talent is rare. I would say... almost non-existent.


	Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex

oldcarguy85

Full Member

Karma: +15/-1
Offline

Offline

Posts: 247

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #6 on: February 15, 2014, 10:10:41 AM »

hey man! Nice post! What is your offset for KFLDHBN? I'm working on GOLF R ecu and I've found LDRXN (x6), LDRXNZK (x6), LAMFA (x3), KFMIRL but i can't seem to find KFLDHBN. Looks like our engines are similar since our LDRXN values/etc. are almost identical. I'd like to try to match up your KFLDHBN values in my flash.

Thanks!
Jordan


	Logged

oldcarguy85

Full Member

Karma: +15/-1
Offline

Offline

Posts: 247

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #7 on: February 15, 2014, 10:20:01 AM »

nevermind! just took the extra 2 minutes and did the math on the values you posted lol. Found it!


	Logged

Basano

Full Member

Karma: +90/-3
Offline

Offline

Posts: 192

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 03:12:51 AM »

Quote from: vdubnation on February 14, 2014, 12:50:05 PM

What did you use to read out the Ecu via OBD ? MPPS right ?

Correct. Clone version 13.02

Quote from: prj on February 14, 2014, 04:25:55 PM

Thank guys. LOL, I only just understood what load means Cheesy

so it will be a while before I try any disassembling! The only way I really learn something is if I try and figure it out for myself. I think that’s the same for most people. Honestly though, the wiki helps a lot.

Quote from: oldcarguy85 on February 15, 2014, 10:10:41 AM

Glad you liked it! Here’s what I’ve got so far.

I couldn’t find KFMIRLS though. Is it possible that both KFMIRL and KFMIRLS could refer to the same eeprom address?

KOMRH
	1CC9A0	KFMIRL
LDRLMX
	1CECE8	KFLDHBN
	1CED4A	LDRXN
	1CED8C	LDRXN
	1CEDCE	LDRXN
	1CEE10	LDRXNZK
	1CEE52	LDRXNZK
	1CEE94	LDRXNZK
MDFUE
	1CC9A0	KFMIRL
MDPED
	1CBBD4	KFPED_0_A
	1CBD54	KFPED_1_A
	1CBED4	KFPEDL_0_A
	1CC054	KFPEDL_1_A
	1CC1D4	KFPEDL_2_A
	1CC354	KFPEDR

Also, what definition file are you using to track down your maps? Is it one of the ones posted here? If you have another one, would you mind sharing it Grin


	Logged

Basano

Full Member

Karma: +90/-3
Offline

Offline

Posts: 192

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 03:30:56 AM »

Very basic question, sorry.

Where does the scaling value come from when you look at maps in WinOLS?

The picture shows what I mean.

For example, I know the rpm ranges from 0 to 6000 and the load ranges from 0 to 200%. But all that the map contains are some hex values that are multiplied/scaled by a factor to represent these real world values? Where does that scaling value in WinOLS come from? Is it also in the hex or maybe in the FDEF or only in WinOLS?

I'm asking because if I'm comparing my flash versus a defined flash in WinOLS, I'm really reliant on that defined bin. My scaling could be different, but how could I check?

Thanks


« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 03:32:32 AM by Basano »	Logged

oldcarguy85

Full Member

Karma: +15/-1
Offline

Offline

Posts: 247

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #10 on: February 17, 2014, 05:40:32 AM »

I'm using the 8P0907115 definition posted in one of the two threads you posted.

I also can't find KFMIRLS. Honestly i haven't even googled stratified injection mode yet, but i don't think our engines support it, so they might not have KFMIRLS. i THINK i found KFMIOPS though, so IDK. Seems KFMIRLS X-axis is different slightly from KFMIRL but Y-axis is the same. I just can't locate with either.

The scaling is only contained in the definition AFAIK but doesn't change from engine to engine (AFAIK). You have to rely on your reference definition to have the correct scaling.


	Logged

dream3R

Hero Member

Karma: +18/-8
Offline

Offline

Posts: 1194

	Re: « Reply #11 on: February 17, 2014, 04:36:00 PM »

I'm currently mulling over factors also..

I though maybe it was y=mx+b style equation but was unable to arrive at the same answers when I looked.


	Logged

How to work out values from an A2L

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5525.msg52371#msg52371

Starting Rev's http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg51169#msg51169

noobs read this before asking http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9014.0title=

ORGORIGINAL 05 5120 creator for Volvo
ORIGINAL Datalogger (Freeware) Author
ORGINAL finder of the 'extra' torque' limits
I don't have ME7.01 A2L I just use ID

nyet

Administrator
Hero Member

Karma: +607/-168
Offline

Offline

Posts: 12268

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #12 on: February 17, 2014, 07:02:25 PM »

Hint: Most are multiples of 1/256 or 1/65536

also:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3392.msg52332#msg52332


« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 07:04:35 PM by nyet »	Logged

dream3R

Hero Member

Karma: +18/-8
Offline

Offline

Posts: 1194

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #13 on: February 18, 2014, 07:13:10 AM »

Quote from: nyet on February 17, 2014, 07:02:25 PM

Hint: Most are multiples of 1/256 or 1/65536

also:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3392.msg52332#msg52332

That's kind of what I was getting at so FF or FFFF are the max values etc.

BUT there is a few odd factors that get me confused when I find them, for example:

(ME9 style maps here but ME7 file with DECOS and ME9 style functions)

DSVDGRAD (DSLGRAD in most other ME7 files) is part of %GGPVD and all factors that I've found in A2L's point to a factor of 0.015625. Also in all ME7 files that I've seen, value of this map in decimal is 540.00. It doesn't make sense for this to be to be any greater number as it's a factor for calculating v-out to pvdr_w so 4.87v * 540 = 2629.8 for example. These calculations fall into the realm of the Bosch datasheets that I see for all of the 2500 sensors, including mine.

Now I have disassembled my file and am 100% certain that I have the correct location, if I use the factor of 0.015625 the map value for DSVDGRAD is incorrect and comes to 651.23xxx, obviously the easy method is to back calculate the factor as we know the value should be 540. But I just can't understand WHY LOL, it's doing my head in...It can't be anything to-do with tick speed as it's not timing/tick based, it's just a factor. So the max value must be different for some bizzare reason.

So 0.015625 * 65536 = 1024 (max value)

Here is the maths on how to work out factors from the A2L BTW:

(VAG MED9 A2L)

DSVDGRAD
"Gradient für Drucksensor vor Drosselklappe"
VALUE
0x1C4A14
KwUw
1023.984 (Total swing of value)
dgrad_uw_q0p015 (COMPU_METHOD) - can be shared etc.
0.00 (min value)
1023.984 (max value)

y=mx+b equation:- (0 - 1023.984) = 1023.984 / (0 - 65536) = 65536 (WORD) + 0 (no offset) = 0.015624755859375

So y = 0.015624755859375 = factor of DSVDGRAD for MED9/ME7 IF the min and max values are as above and the map is a WORD.

Major old edit.......... I was right, but didn't realise sensor was different


« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 12:35:02 PM by dream3R »	Logged

How to work out values from an A2L

dream3R

Hero Member

Karma: +18/-8
Offline

Offline

Posts: 1194

	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 07:19:54 AM »

Sorry, I meant to attach the ASM picture but forgot. I can't see any error (pvdr_w is definitely correct).


	Logged

How to work out values from an A2L

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 26

« previous next »

Jump to:

Navigation

Personal Tools

November 24, 2024, 08:17:04 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Navigation

Personal Tools

Search