MED 9.1 basics

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Nottingham

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #135 on: July 05, 2014, 11:43:04 PM »

Few more basic questions:

The relationship between the different "cylinder charges" (relative luftfüllung) between the different maps.

The KFMIRL/S & KFMIOP/S maps are permanently linked together, but do the other (KFZW/2, KFZWOP/2, KFZWOPL/2, etc) "cylinder charge" axises relate each other?
The range of the axises between the different maps vary between 150-171% on a 200hp engine variants.
The default KFMIRL on these engines goes up to 177%.

The main question is that if the KFMIRL charge axis is increased to reach up to 220% instead of the 177%, is it necessary to reflect the change in KFMIRL to every other map with a "cylinder charge" axis?
Even at stock there seem to be a slight discrepancy (up to 20% in charge) between the maps, but what happens if the load axises on other maps remains at stock (up to 171%) while KFMIRL requests up to 220% (KFMIOP recalculated of course)?
Torque intervention?

What about the KFLBTS and KFFDLBTS then?
Currently my fuelling is quite ok, however it tends to run slightly richer than I would like to (and have specified in KFLBTS).
I have understood that unless KFFDLBTS is other than 0.0000 (disabled?) it functions as an offset for KFLBTS.
On the stock maps at 155.25% CC/LF and 3520rpm the KFLBTS specifies 0.7188 LAMBDA, while the KFFDLBTS specifies 1.2032.
This would mean the effective LAMBDA value would be 0.7188 * 1.2032 = 0.865.

At higher rpms the KFFDLBTS is decreased to below one which would result richer mixture than requested by KFLBTS.
This would make sense as the stock software seems to dump as much fuel as possible at high rpms to keep the EGTs down.

So in case the above assumption is correct, will setting the whole table to 1.0000 make the LAMBDA to follow KFLBTS better?
I've read that disabling (setting to 0) it might have an effect on timings too, but is the logical 1 just basically a zero offset?


« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 11:45:54 PM by Nottingham »	Logged

Basano

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #136 on: July 06, 2014, 12:25:06 PM »

Quote from: nyet on July 04, 2014, 05:42:53 PM

which probably means you are probably way off the reservation efficiency wise, and likely near the overspin boundary.

Consider consulting the K04 compressor map...

Stock S3 Turbo is part number 5304 988 0064

Think I've managed to find a corresponding compressor map (attached).

I'll have a go at the compressor map feature in ECUxPlot. Anyone happen to know the 2.0 TFSI maf diameter (and maf offset)?

Many thanks.

Quote from: Nottingham on July 05, 2014, 11:43:04 PM

Few more basic questions

...

Hi Nottingham,

I'm pretty sure I've used the MED9.1 information you put up in previous posts to help me!

1) KRKATE. For what it's worth, I've attached my stock S3 bin. I've had a look and I think stock S3 KRKATE is 0.030000

2) Charge axis. I have wondered about this myself Huh

I've also got KFMIRL/KFMIOP raised but haven't touched the axis in any other maps. I haven't noticed anything untoward but I would be interested in this as well.

3) KFLBTS and KFFDLBTS. I made changes to KFLBTS, but it was more trial and error - make a small change, log, make another small change, log and so on. I did also take a look at the FR and I can see the influence of KFFDLBTS you describe.

4) Curious about the rev limiter you are working on. Is it stock hardware on the engine? My recent experience show the turbo pretty much running out of puff even before the factory rev limit. I didn't think there was anything to be gained by going further, but obviously I don't know your scenario. Just curious though Grin

Happy to help where I can. Always nice to meet others also working on MED9.1


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nyet

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #137 on: July 06, 2014, 03:38:52 PM »

Quote from: Basano on July 06, 2014, 12:25:06 PM

I'll have a go at the compressor map feature in ECUxPlot. Anyone happen to know the 2.0 TFSI maf diameter (and maf offset)?

A couple things:

1) the MAF stuff in ECUxPlot is only there to assist in files where the MAF values are underscaled. If you are confident your MAF readings are 1:1 with reality, you shouldn't have to touch it.

2) the pressure drop model leaves a lot to be desired, so don't necessarily trust the calc P/R numbers, they're only a ball park.


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ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #138 on: July 06, 2014, 03:41:22 PM »

Quote from: Nottingham on July 05, 2014, 11:43:04 PM

but what happens if the load axises on other maps remains at stock (up to 171%) while KFMIRL requests up to 220% (KFMIOP recalculated of course)?

ME will simply use all of the 171% cells at that operating point. In general, it isn't a problem, but you may find various maps where you want things to vary depending on load past 171% (or 190, or whatever).


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vagenwerk

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #139 on: July 06, 2014, 04:37:30 PM »

Quote from: Basano on July 06, 2014, 12:25:06 PM

4) Curious about the rev limiter you are working on. Is it stock hardware on the engine? My recent experience show the turbo pretty much running out of puff even before the factory rev limit. I didn't think there was anything to be gained by going further, but obviously I don't know your scenario. Just curious though Grin

Happy to help where I can. Always nice to meet others also working on MED9.1

It is worth to enable second rev limiter , as we can make 2 step rev limiter (launch control) like in GTI or golf R DSG if we have manual gearbox.

I also working on this limiter, but till now without success.

PS. What variable ram logger do You use to log variables ?


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dream3R

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #140 on: July 07, 2014, 05:04:03 AM »

Quote from: vagenwerk on July 06, 2014, 04:37:30 PM

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5941.0


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How to work out values from an A2L

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5525.msg52371#msg52371

Starting Rev's http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg51169#msg51169

noobs read this before asking http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9014.0title=

ORGORIGINAL 05 5120 creator for Volvo
ORIGINAL Datalogger (Freeware) Author
ORGINAL finder of the 'extra' torque' limits
I don't have ME7.01 A2L I just use ID

Nottingham

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #141 on: July 08, 2014, 01:15:03 AM »

It seems that following maps need to be checked or recalculated in case the KFMIRL/S is heavily increased from default calibrations.
Thats just theoretical of course, but all of these maps use rl_w in either axis.

KFDWSZ
KFDZK
KFDZWAGL
KFDZWAGR
KFDZWHKS
KFDZWHMM
KFDZWHMML
KFDZWHSP
KFDZWKGAGL
KFDZWKGAGR
KFFRKHK2K1
KFLADMXHMM
KFLADXHMMA
KFLAHMM
KFLASDSLS
KFLASKH
KFLMSKH
KFLRSG1
KFLRSG12
KFLRSG2
KFLRSG22
KFLRSG3
KFLRSG32
KFLRSG4
KFLRSG42
KFLRSP1
KFLRSP12
KFLRSP2
KFLRSP22
KFLRSP3
KFLRSP32
KFLRSP4
KFLRSP42
KFLRSPHI
KFLRST
KFLRST2
KFLRSZ
KFLRSZ2
KFMDS
KFMIOP
KFMIOPS
KFSWKFZK
KFSWKFZKR
KFTOSPMVRL
KFTVLBTS
KFWBHK2S1
KFWBHP2S1
KFWEHK2K1
KFWEHP2K1
KFZW
KFZW2
KFZW2OUT
KFZWKEVABZ
KFZWLB1
KFZWLB1OUT
KFZWLB2
KFZWLB2OUT
KFZWMN
KFZWMNGS
KFZWMNHSP
KFZWMNKH
KFZWMNLB
KFZWMNST
KFZWMNUM
KFZWMS
KFZWMSLB
KFZWOP
KFZWOP2
KFZWOPA
KFZWOPA2
KFZWOPL
KFZWOPL2
KFZWOPLA
KFZWOPLA2
KFZWOUT
SRL07OPUW
SRL08LSUW
SRL08ZHKUW
SRL08ZHKUW
SRL08ZHKUW
SRL08ZHKUW
SRL08ZHPUW
SRL08ZHPUW
SRL08ZHPUW
SRL08ZUUW
SRL11OPUW
SRL11OPUW
SRL12ZUUW
SRL12ZUUW


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BenR

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #142 on: July 08, 2014, 08:39:39 PM »

Quote from: nyet on July 06, 2014, 03:41:22 PM

+1 to this. My understanding is if you have a max charge load of say 190%, once you reach 190% the car will hold the value in that line (Torque % for example) Most people change the axis in KFMIOP to "reflect" the change in KFMIRL but i dont think its needed. It will hold the value at the 190% or anything above that. Unless you are doing something weird and want to change the axis's in 50 other maps i dont think its really needed to change the axis.


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nyet

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #143 on: July 08, 2014, 08:48:12 PM »

It is going to be FAR more than 50 maps IMO.

Nottingham: you are in for a WORLD of hurt if you think you have to adjust all maps to be able to handle rl_w > 171


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Nottingham

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #144 on: July 09, 2014, 01:32:21 AM »

Quote from: nyet on July 08, 2014, 08:48:12 PM

Nottingham: you are in for a WORLD of hurt if you think you have to adjust all maps to be able to handle rl_w > 171

Thats why I said: in theory Wink


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Nottingham

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #145 on: July 10, 2014, 01:04:18 AM »

An embarrassing question as the answer should be clear at this point: The ECU does not either inter- or extrapolate?

E.G.

Actual RPM = 4500

Map:

4000 RPM = 100
5000 RPM = 125

Value at 4500rpm = 125 (?)


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ddillenger

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #146 on: July 10, 2014, 01:30:47 AM »

Interpolate, yes.

Extrapolate, no.


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majorahole

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #147 on: July 10, 2014, 06:49:58 AM »

Quote from: ddillenger on July 10, 2014, 01:30:47 AM

Interpolate, yes.

Extrapolate, no.

so using his example 4500rpm = 112.5?

that's how i have been thinking it works. would like to know if I'm putting too much thought into it!


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phila_dot

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #148 on: July 10, 2014, 09:37:56 AM »

Typically, the lower row columns are interpolated, the higher row columns are interpolated, then the interpolated values from each row are interpolated together.

	100	150
4000	10	20
5000	20	40

Load 125
RPM 4500

Lower row interpolated would be 15
Second row interpolated would be 30

Output value would be 22.5


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quattrotr

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	Re: MED 9.1 basics « Reply #149 on: July 15, 2014, 01:34:07 PM »

After fitting K04 turbo of an Audi S3 2.0TFSI on my BWA engine MK5 GTI. I want to move on and exchange to S3 injectors too. I read that S3 have arround 13% more flow capacity. I guess adjusting KRKATE will be enough. Looking and comparing files, I found that my value is 3330 whereas S3 has 2880 value. This also shows that the value is arround 13% different. Will this adaptation be enough? I read that S3 has also fitted 3 bar MAP sensor whereas BWA only has 2.55 bar one. What will it help when I exchange to 3 bar sensor? Will be adjusting DSVDGRAD and DSVDGRAD enough after fitting the 3 bar MAP? BWA engine has DSVDGRAD=541 / DSVDGRAD=5103,59 whereas S3 values are 658,83 and 5056,48. Are these values OK? Thanks for your tips and help.


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