n0ble
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« on: March 21, 2014, 05:42:54 PM »
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Hi All,
I have a car with the twin charged TSI engine.
I originally had the car with stock parts and decided to go stage 1, all was running fine.
Then i decided to fit a full exhaust system and an uprated intercooler, for the first 100 or so miles after these hardware changes the car was driven spirited with most of the driving done above 4k rpm.
It was only at the point where i started to drive steady that i noticed that on over run below 3k RPM that intermittently the car will start bellowing what looks be to a charcoal colour smoke and some times under light throttle it will bellow out lots of smoke, some instances worse than others. It will also some times do this when pulling off slowly. The sometimes this issue does not occur at all.
To note, the car has not used any water or coolant since this issue has started.
What i will say is that under WOT i get no smoke at all and the smoke only seems to happen below 3K RPM, what i did notice on logging is that the car appears to go very rich when the smoke appears.
And i also got weird Lambda read outs when i did a 4th gear WOT Pull, the car actually requested Lambda 1 and then attempted to meet it right in the middle of a WOT at 6.2k RPM.
4th gear pull:
Actual Lambda:
3.4k = 0.932
3.9k = 0.967
4.4k = 0.948
4.8k = 0.878
5.3k = 0.844
5.7k = 0.824
6.1k = 0.972 <--- Just starts leaning out here Specified also shows specified as lambda 1 here on the logs..
6.4k = 0.891
6.7k = 0.821
I think i can hear a boost leak as I now get a screeching/high pitch whistle when coming onto boost.
I have placed the stock software on the car to see if that's the issue.
Although placing the stock software on the car has not cured the issue, there is certainly less smoke.
So my current thoughts:
- "I think the smoke is caused by" At low rpm/load i think the car is putting in loads of fuel for whatever reason and there's not enough air to burn the fuel properly hence all the smoke.
- Lambda sensor has been damaged when changing over to the new exhaust and is intermittently giving incorrect readings.
- Boost leak on either IC or IC pipework, so more air is getting into the intake after the MAF, then lambda is seeing lean and trying to rich out? (Just didn't think a boost leak could make so much smoke on a petrol)
- Something disrupted like gasket or something when needing to use some pressure to get the bracket to line up on the ill fitting "big brand name" exhaust.
- MAF gone faulty.
Tomorrow i will pull the bumper off an check for boost leaks and the ensure my lambda wiring is ok.
Apart from this, does anyone else have any other suggestions of what it could be on this twin charged engine?
Thanks
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matchew
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2014, 05:48:14 PM »
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MAF?
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n0ble
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2014, 05:50:46 PM »
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MAF?
I will check that, but wouldn't have MAF thrown a fault code on the engine module in VCDS? Something like intermittent implausible signal or something? Plus this only started to happen after IC and exhaust install, but it may just be a horrible coincidence. Forgot to mention that the car is a 2012 with 20000 miles. Also to note, there is no noticeable loss of power. |
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« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 05:59:39 PM by n0ble »
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userpike
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 07:39:01 PM »
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Whats the oil level looking like?
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n0ble
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2014, 07:49:28 PM »
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Oil level is just over half full and I have been closely monitoring the oil since this started happening and it's not dropped. Nor has the coolant level.
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n0ble
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2014, 01:02:11 AM »
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Something else when cruising and then I use more throttle car initially goes leaner then richens out. I would not expect it to initially go leaner. I'm more inclined to think I have boost leak.
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userpike
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2014, 07:25:59 AM »
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Oil level is just over half full and I have been closely monitoring the oil since this started happening and it's not dropped. Nor has the coolant level.
Half full? shouldn't it be full? |
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n0ble
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 03:48:39 AM »
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Well that depends as these engines are known to use oil. The 2.0tfsi also uses oil. But I think I know what the problem is.
I am able to replicate it, if I'm on vacuum for 20 seconds plus, like going down a hill the smoke starts and then when I accelerate it blows it all out.
As I get no smoke when on boost i'm inclined to think that it's valve stem oil seals.
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userpike
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2014, 09:59:41 AM »
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Well that depends as these engines are known to use oil. The 2.0tfsi also uses oil. But I think I know what the problem is.
I am able to replicate it, if I'm on vacuum for 20 seconds plus, like going down a hill the smoke starts and then when I accelerate it blows it all out.
As I get no smoke when on boost i'm inclined to think that it's valve stem oil seals.
or the compressor side oil seal.. you said the motor has like only 20,000ish miles right? valve stem seals should be fine but your spirited 4000+ rpm "on boost cruises"  you described could very well have damaged the turbocharger. Also you explained you hear screaching noise coming on boost, that doesn't come from valve seals being bad that comes from a compressor/turbine wheel contacting its housing. If its really bad you can hear like a "tink tink...tatinktink" sound @ idle when you put your ear next to the TIP inlet. I could be totally wrong here as I'm not familiar with the tfsi engines but I would bet on the turbo failing over the valve stem seals any day especially on a low mileage motor. Pull the intercooler piping just after the turbo and see if it's oily inside, if so, you know whats up.. |
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n0ble
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2014, 08:32:02 AM »
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A little update. I pulled the plugs and found some oil on the plugs from cylinders 2 and 3. I think the boost leak type noise I can hear is due to a bad joint somewhere from when the new IC was fitted. It's almost like a secondary spool up/down noise.
Yup engine only has 20k on it. Investigations continue.
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adam-
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2014, 09:40:30 AM »
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Oil? Plugs should be shiny if oil.
If that, what is your charge pipes like? Check your intercooler too for pools of oil. If there's none there, it sounds like it's burning oil in the engine, in which case it'll be rings or stem seals.
A leak down test will confirm, but either way, it's not good..
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n0ble
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 11:18:12 AM »
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Compression test is good. All cylinders showing good. No excess oil in charge pipes, ic, turbo or supercharger.
So I guess next thing to change is valve stem oil seals. Just seems odd that they would go so soon.
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userpike
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 08:44:32 PM »
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Compression test is good. All cylinders showing good. No excess oil in charge pipes, ic, turbo or supercharger.
So I guess next thing to change is valve stem oil seals. Just seems odd that they would go so soon.
When you start it in the morn first thing do you get a puff of smoke out the exhaust? |
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n0ble
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2014, 01:40:10 AM »
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Not every morning but if I'm quick and take a look around the back of the car there is a very slight puff of smoke on the odd occasion in the morning. I'm not having much luck with cars recently lol. I just managed to stuff up the immo on my gf's car so now that's a non starter too :-/
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userpike
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2014, 11:08:54 AM »
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Not every morning but if I'm quick and take a look around the back of the car there is a very slight puff of smoke on the odd occasion in the morning. I'm not having much luck with cars recently lol. I just managed to stuff up the immo on my gf's car so now that's a non starter too :-/
Good job on the immo! that sucks... you'll get it fixed... or you won't get laid ever again... lol The smoke in the morn deal can be a sign of bad stem seals or worn stem guides. Is it still under warranty? Put all the stock parts/software back on and send it to the dealer! With some luck they'll warranty out the repair costs. |
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