Pages: 1 [2] 3
Author Topic: 1.4TSI Lots of Smoke Intermittently  (Read 34227 times)
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2014, 11:29:21 AM »


Good job on the immo! that sucks... you'll get it fixed... or you won't get laid ever again... lol

The smoke in the morn deal can be a sign of bad stem seals or worn stem guides.

Is it still under warranty? Put all the stock parts/software back on and send it to the dealer! With some luck they'll warranty out the repair costs.

Haha this is true hence my panic to fix it.

The difficulty is putting the stock parts back on, the inside bumper has to be cut to I stall larger IC so that is noticeable and the oem exhaust has to be cut off as it's a single unit from the centre back or the alternative was to take the whole axel off lol.
So that'll also be noticeable if it's got a joiner on.

I guess this is why you shouldn't modify a car too much when it's still under warranty,  it's got warranty until next year too... or did have....

I really hope it's not the guides as I think the guides are integral, I don't think they are an interchangeable part :-(
Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2014, 12:48:38 PM »

Oooooh fml.  Now my Stage 2 helix clutch is slipping on my Leon. It's only done 10k on that clutch and it was fairly heavy clutch toom
Logged
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763


« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2014, 12:56:06 PM »

The dealer would most likely replace the head anyway. warranty or not

..really sucks if its the valve stem seals.

I wonder if they could have melted around the valve stem.  like the valves got too hot, most likely the exhaust valves. Whats the highest your EGTs have ever been?

From what I have read 1600F is scary hot. 12-1400F range is about max for safety.

From watching my EGT gauge: at idle 7-800F, a long idle drops it lower than 600F, at cruise about 1000F and if I get on it it climes quickly to around 1200F sometime higher but not much because of fuel enrichment.
Logged
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763


« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2014, 12:56:55 PM »

Oooooh fml.  Now my Stage 2 helix clutch is slipping on my Leon. It's only done 10k on that clutch and it was fairly heavy clutch toom


sell the cars.. get a bicycle... damn dude!
Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2014, 02:41:00 PM »

The problem with these cars is no egt sensors and an egt model is used so depending on how the tuning has been calibrated or not in some cases and new diameter of exhaust and IC etc the figures are threw out a little. They are a lean burn engine too. But on this 1.4tsi i have seen calculated at 800c which is like 1500f. And tbh on my Leon tfsi i have seen as high as 900c under some really really heavy usage which is like 1650f. But again these are calculated temps. I guess it's possible they have melted around my valves.  Fortunately nothing has melted to date on the 2.0tfsi and that has been given some really heavy abuse and running 2 bar peak.
Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2014, 02:41:33 PM »


sell the cars.. get a bicycle... damn dude!

Lol its getting that way. If only I didn't live 60 miles from work :-(
Logged
adam-
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +124/-33
Offline Offline

Posts: 2179


« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2014, 11:15:28 AM »

I'm not too convinced man, blue smoke is usually indication that it's burning oil.

I did a little Googling and there is a PistonHeads thread talking about this - and one guy gets his engine replaced under warranty.

Some say it's a smokey engine but it's black smoke, which indicates over-fuelling.

If it's not loosing oil then I'd say there's nothing to worry about..  Can you post a picture of the plugs up?  If it's the stem seals, a long overrun at speed, in say second gear (for as long as you can), and then get on the throttle.  If you get blue smoke, then I'd be tempted to say stem seals.

But surely not at this age?  It's too young?
Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2014, 11:24:06 AM »

Well at the point it's happening there is no fuel as the car is on vacuum when on over run.

The symptoms you explain is exactly what I experience..... my logic...

Now i think this was caused by the fact that I didn't realise that the car had a litre of oil missing, so was only just touching the dipstick(i know schoolboy error)

This all happened after giving the car full throttle around a long swooping corner.

So when you consider that the car only takes 3.6 litre of oil and I had at least a litre missing (1 litre  between min and max on the dip stick) so I probably only had about 2.8 litre of oil left....
going round the long swooping corner at full throttle... i think part of the top end got a little oil starvation and the seals got HOT due to lack of oil and hardened onto the valves? Maybe?

I'm only getting oil on the plugs in cylinder 2 and 3, compression test is all fine too.

Next is to pull the cams and inspect the valve seals.
Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2014, 05:51:37 AM »

This car is breaking me down :-( valve stem oil seals replaced and still got exactly same problem. There is no piston wall damage so it can't be a ring.

Also the car only seems to smoke at lower RPM on overrun/engine brake,  if I drop the gear and keep the engine in higher rpm(3-4k) on overrun/engine brake it doesn't smoke. What on earth could it be? Could it be the turbo? But I don't see any oil in there?  Or maybe I don't see the oil as it's been blown into the engine once it's built up in the turbo?
Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2014, 05:52:09 AM »

Btw it is losing oil just very slowly.
Logged
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763


« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2014, 06:12:26 AM »

This car is breaking me down :-( valve stem oil seals replaced and still got exactly same problem. There is no piston wall damage so it can't be a ring.

Also the car only seems to smoke at lower RPM on overrun/engine brake,  if I drop the gear and keep the engine in higher rpm(3-4k) on overrun/engine brake it doesn't smoke. What on earth could it be? Could it be the turbo? But I don't see any oil in there?  Or maybe I don't see the oil as it's been blown into the engine once it's built up in the turbo?


any oil leaking through the compressor side oil seal would be blown from the turbo all through the charge air piping, even the throttle body would have a film of oil on it.

A leak on the exhaust side oil seal would cause instant smoke whenever oil pressure rises and might seem to dissipate at higher rpms because of the volume of exhaust moving through the pipes, also the pressure of the exhaust at the higher rpm on the seal would prevent oil coming through or much less oil coming though.

unless the supercharger runs oil through in a way that could leak into the intake tract, it's gotta be the turbo.

Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2014, 10:47:10 AM »

Well here's the thing? There is no excessive oil in the intake pipes or IC.  Inside SC was dry also and turbo also looked dry.  Whatever is happening it's certainly getting in cylinders. More cylinder 2 and 3. If I get the car to smoke near my house and use very little throttle plugs 2 and 3 are a little wet.

Valve stem seals have been changed and valve guides looked ok.

No scoring on the cylinder walls so surely can't be a piston or rings?
Logged
userpike
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +22/-1
Offline Offline

Posts: 763


« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2014, 09:14:08 AM »

Well here's the thing? There is no excessive oil in the intake pipes or IC.  Inside SC was dry also and turbo also looked dry.  Whatever is happening it's certainly getting in cylinders. More cylinder 2 and 3. If I get the car to smoke near my house and use very little throttle plugs 2 and 3 are a little wet.

Valve stem seals have been changed and valve guides looked ok.

No scoring on the cylinder walls so surely can't be a piston or rings?


Can you show a pic of what you are calling "no excessive oil in intake pipes"? there really shouldn't be any oil. Sure, turbo motors generally consume oil but not anywhere close to the volume you are suggesting in an earlier post. 

The oil consumption is so small normally that you wouldn't notice a difference in the level on the dipstick or when you change the oil.

Assuming you pulled the head for the valve stem job, it can't be the head gasket as you installed a new one. ( I hope! lolol)

gotta be the turbo.
Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2014, 03:38:16 PM »


Can you show a pic of what you are calling "no excessive oil in intake pipes"? there really shouldn't be any oil. Sure, turbo motors generally consume oil but not anywhere close to the volume you are suggesting in an earlier post. 

The oil consumption is so small normally that you wouldn't notice a difference in the level on the dipstick or when you change the oil.

Assuming you pulled the head for the valve stem job, it can't be the head gasket as you installed a new one. ( I hope! lolol)

gotta be the turbo.

Hey,

I don't have a picture at the moment, but all the turbo cars i have had have had some level of oil within the charge pipes as the vent pipes are plumbed into the intake, therefore on boost you will get blowby.
There isnt a pool of oil, but if you rub your finger on the side of the pipe it is a tiny bit oily.

The head was not removed to do the stem seals, air can be pushed into the cylinder to bring the valve up and remove the spring, seal etc.

Whilst reading this, also consider that im only seeing oil in cylinders 2 and 3, if it was from the intake direction i would expect to see oil in all not just the middle 2 banks.

I have a theory, I believe that due to freeflow cat and larger IC that i have increased a pre existing issue as both of these things would increase vacuum. When fitting the stock exhaust and IC i do not see the smoke.

Completing some analysis on instances i have found on the internet of people complaining of high oil consumption, it seems that there is an extremely high percentage of 1.4tsi owners that have oil consumption issues.  I believe they are probably having the same issues as me but are not seeing the smoke as they have the stock exhaust installed and cat is cleaning/retaining a little until they go onto hard throttle.

When people have been experiencing high oil issues VAG have been replacing the engine, just before VAG decided to discontinue the engine they made a revised bottom end, block, pistons, PCV and vent hoses, the remained of the old parts are refitted to the new block. This whole revised crated engine comes in the form of the engine code "CTHE" i believe.

VAG have also been fitting the revised PCV and vent parts to the older engines to reduce vacuum and in turn the oil consumption a little, but i believe this is VAG's attempt to mask the real issue which i'm coming onto.
A couple other things which seem to reduce oil consumption is using 5/40 instead of 5/30 oil and people that make more use of manual mode on the DSG, which i have tested and yes if you keep the car in manual mode you are typically not using between 1-2k RPM much.... result no smoke. The fact i get no smoke is probably closely related to why people are using less oil with this method.

So it seems there is a mix up of things that are potentially causing oil to get past the pistons, there have been discoveries that the crank bearings cause a lot of vibration on the crank feeding through to rods and over time causing the rings to wear unevenly on the bore due to very slight movement. VAG have also created revised pistons and rings for the older engine too as the rings were wearing down very quickly, so i assume they have used a harder ring. There have also been suggestions that the older pistons are very slightly too small for the engine too, so with this combination of issues.......

I have found 2 instances of people in the same situation of me who managed to fix their engine from smoking.
The stock cylinders are 76.5mm so replacing them again with 76.5mm is probably not a good idea if we consider the above issues, as the bore may have slightly worn a little over time.
Both Wossner and CP manufacture slightly over size pistons to 77mm, so i'm going with the 77mm pistons and having the work done on my head to hone them in for a snug fit!

So this is the route i'm now taking and if this does not resolve the issue, then i will be issuing everyone an interesting bonfire invitation lol
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 03:47:19 PM by n0ble » Logged
n0ble
Full Member
***

Karma: +2/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 192


« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2014, 06:33:08 PM »

So, i have not posted for a while....

But i am finally getting to the bottom of my issue, check out the below included pictures and look at the OE pistons... you can see evidence of gas blow by after the rings.... so i guess this is where my oil has been seeping through on vacuum.







What is odd, is that a compression test showed all cylinders as good... maybe the issue starts once the engine has heated up..

Either way the following picture shows my new oversized pistons honed into the block for a nice snug fit, just waiting on getting my turbo back and the rebuild can begin! :-)



I will provide a further update once it's up and running.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 06:48:59 PM by n0ble » Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.061 seconds with 17 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0s, 0q)