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Author Topic: WinOLS for a mk4 AUM Golf GTI - 06A906032HJ 0002 (Questions)  (Read 73017 times)
dgpb
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« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2014, 07:44:06 AM »

I'd modify the axis if it were me.  There's no resolution under higher loads..

It's a possibility, but I don't know if that axis is shared with any other map... Is it?

Anyway, are these lambda values safe enough from your point of view? I put a minimum of .82 because I think revo does the same in its stage1... is my KFLBTS rich enough to not cause damage in components like valves, the turbine, the manifold... what do you guys think?


Ps: By the moment, I'm not requesting higer loads than the maximum of that axis, 150.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 08:22:43 AM by diegogpb » Logged
adam-
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« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2014, 01:32:23 PM »

For stage 1, yeah, I'd say that's plenty rich!

Provided you don't go above loads much higher than 150 I'd say you're good to go! Smiley
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dgpb
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« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2014, 02:24:23 PM »

For stage 1, yeah, I'd say that's plenty rich!

Provided you don't go above loads much higher than 150 I'd say you're good to go! Smiley

Thank you Adam
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dgpb
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« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2014, 06:42:41 AM »

For stage 1, yeah, I'd say that's plenty rich!

Provided you don't go above loads much higher than 150 I'd say you're good to go! Smiley

Well, actually It wasn't hahaha

I gained 8g/s since last remap, but I'm getting 4.5ยบ of ignition timing retardation between 5000-6000rpm @WOT in cylinder 3, and 1.5 in other cylinders
It might be better to enlarge the 0.82 lambda area... I think It'd be perfect with that.

Important, I'm using 95oct fuel, and It's not in my plans to use 98oct.
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« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2014, 09:10:41 AM »

Is fuelling following requested though?

Have you got logs?

What is your requested and actual boost? Provided you are really not going over loads much more than 150 you should not be pulling timing, unless the values are already high..
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dgpb
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« Reply #65 on: November 09, 2014, 01:12:43 PM »

Is fuelling following requested though?

Have you got logs?

What is your requested and actual boost? Provided you are really not going over loads much more than 150 you should not be pulling timing, unless the values are already high..

Of course I've got logs

I logged several things, about your questions:
Requested and actual lambdas are matching nearly perfect
Boost does too, but at higer revs, actual is more or less 0.1bar smaller than requested... I'm pretty sure is due to the higer load requested than obtained at this revs (Req=150max, act=143 max, or so). But I'm requesting that load beacause, without any logycal explanation, If I put requested load the same values as my actual load now, the actual load decreases. I don't know why, but it's like this.

My n75 map is stock, Should I modify it?. Taking a look at this log I think my n75 actuator is ok but this higer revs with quite less duty cycle than 90s%... makes me think


Keep in mind that my LDRXN map is a bit uncommon, I don't request very much load at low and low-medium revs... it starts to rise after medium-high revs. I do this to not produce lots of torque and cause damage to my clutch
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 01:44:43 PM by diegogpb » Logged
4ringpieces
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« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2014, 10:41:26 AM »

Try lowering fueling to .78 at 5000-6000 see if it clears up your knock retard
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nyet
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« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2014, 11:34:43 AM »

Of course I've got logs

So post those, not just a screenshot of your csv file Tongue

Quote
But I'm requesting that load beacause, without any logycal explanation, If I put requested load the same values as my actual load now, the actual load decreases. I don't know why, but it's like this.

I keep trying to explain this to you Sad

ONE MORE TIME:

THE PID DOES NOT CORRECT BASED ON LOAD ERROR

It corrects based on lde (boost) process error.

There is no feedback loop in ME7 that compares actual load to requested load.

Quote
My n75 map is stock, Should I modify it?

Uh, what?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 11:36:41 AM by nyet » Logged

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dgpb
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« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2014, 03:24:34 PM »

So post those, not just a screenshot of your csv file Tongue

I keep trying to explain this to you Sad

ONE MORE TIME:

THE PID DOES NOT CORRECT BASED ON LOAD ERROR

It corrects based on lde (boost) process error.

There is no feedback loop in ME7 that compares actual load to requested load.

Uh, what?

1- I didn't post it because you don't like vcds logas and I made them with that, anyway, here there are the logs.

2- Yes, I know, you told it to me... that's te reason for mapping LDRXN like that. But I don't understand why there's an actual load measuring block. It's a calculation?, It's wrong then...

3- I think (maybe i'm wrong) there are some n75/wastegate actuator map, based on rpms or whatever. Otherwise I can't understand why the duty cycle at hig revs isn't 90-95%

4- If opening excel is too time consuming for you or any other member, I paste one of the 3 or 4 runs I did in the same log

   Engine Speed   Engine Load   Throttle Valve Angle   Ignition      Timing Retardation   Timing Retardation   Timing Retardation   Timing Retardation      Lambda Control   Lambda Control
TIME   (G28)         Timing Angle   TIME   Cylinder 1   Cylinder 2   Cylinder 3   Cylinder 4   TIME   Bank 1 (actual)   Bank 1 (specified)
STAMP    /min    %    %    °BTDC   STAMP   °KW   °KW   °KW   °KW   STAMP      
0   2080   32,3   9,8   21,8   0,3   0   0   0   0   0,6   1,008   1
0,9   2200   97,7   100   8,3   1,21   0   0   0   0   1,51   0,992   0,961
1,81   2440   125,6   100   6   2,11   0   0   0   0   2,41   0,945   0,945
2,72   2720   124,8   100   9   3,02   0   0   0   0   3,32   0,938   0,945
3,62   3000   127,8   100   10,5   3,92   0   0   0   0   4,22   0,922   0,945
4,53   3320   127,8   100   13,5   4,83   0   0   0   3   5,13   0,945   0,945
5,43   3560   130,1   100   11,3   5,73   0   0   0   3   6,03   0,93   0,938
6,34   3840   130,8   100   14,3   6,64   0   0   0   2,3   6,94   0,891   0,899
7,24   4120   133,8   100   10,5   7,55   0   0   0   2,3   7,84   0,883   0,883
8,15   4400   135,3   100   13,5   8,46   0   0   3   1,5   8,75   0,86   0,86
9,05   4680   136,8   100   10,5   9,35   0   0   3   1,5   9,65   0,828   0,836
9,97   4920   138,3   100   9   10,27   0   0   2,3   1,5   10,57   0,821   0,828
10,86   5160   141,4   100   8,3   11,16   0   0   2,3   0,8   11,48   0,821   0,828
11,78   5400   143,6   100   10,5   12,08   0   0   1,5   0,8   12,37   0,805   0,828
12,67   5600   142,1   100   9   12,97   0   3   1,5   3,8   13,29   0,805   0,821
13,59   5800   137,6   100   11,3   13,88   0   3   1,5   3,8   14,19   0,813   0,821
14,48   6000   135,3   100   12   14,8   3   3   4,5   3,8   15,09   0,821   0,821
15,39   6160   130,8   100   12,8   15,7   3   2,3   4,5   3   16   0,821   0,821
16,3   6320   130,1   100   11,3   16,61   3   2,3   3,8   3   16,91   0,813   0,821
17,21   6480   127,1   100   14,3   17,51   2,3   2,3   3,8   3   17,8   0,828   0,821
18,11   6600   124,1   100   13,5   18,42   2,3   1,5   3,8   2,3   18,72   0,821   0,828
19,02   6720   122,6   100   15,8   19,32   2,3   1,5   3   2,3   19,61   0,821   0,828

   Engine Load   Engine Load   Engine Load   Wastegate (N75)      Engine Speed   Engine Load   Boost Pressure   Boost Pressure      Engine Speed   Mass Air Flow   Throttle Valve Angle   Ignition
TIME   (specified)   (spec. corrected)   (actual)   Duty Cycle   TIME   (G28)      (specified)   (actual)   TIME   (G28)   (G70)      Timing Angle
STAMP    %    %    %    %   STAMP    /min    %    mbar    mbar   STAMP    /min    g/s    %    °BTDC
114,96   124,1   123,9   14,3   0   115,27   2480   74,4   1680   1030   115,57   2600   54,22   99,2   9,8
115,87   125,6   125,4   114,3   78   116,17   2800   130,8   1730   1770   116,47   2920   73,67   100   9
116,78   127,1   126,9   132,3   67,5   117,08   3160   133,1   1740   1750   117,38   3280   84,86   100   8,3
117,68   130,8   129,9   133,1   67,1   117,98   3520   135,3   1720   1730   118,28   3640   93,53   100   12,8
118,59   136,1   134,3   132,3   67,8   118,89   3880   133,1   1810   1760   119,19   4000   104,36   100   14,3
119,49   140,6   138,8   136,1   71   119,79   4240   136,8   1850   1810   120,1   4360   112,28   100   12,8
120,4   143,6   143,3   138,3   72,2   120,7   4560   136,8   1850   1810   121   4680   123,47   99,6   9,8
121,31   147,4   146,3   138,3   74,1   121,6   4920   138,3   1870   1810   121,91   5000   133,72   100   12,8
122,21   149,6   149,3   139,8   76,9   122,52   5240   140,6   1890   1840   122,81   5320   144,86   100   12
123,12   149,6   150,7   141,4   82,7   123,42   5520   140,6   1900   1890   123,73   5600   150,92   100   9,8
124,03   148,1   149,3   139,8   91,4   124,32   5760   136,8   1900   1860   124,63   5880   152,89   100   14,3
124,92   145,9   149,3   135,3   95,3   125,23   6040   133,8   1890   1790   125,54   6120   153,89   100   12,8
125,84   142,9   144,8   130,8   89,4   126,14   6240   130,8   1870   1770   126,44   6320   155,58   100   12,8
126,74   140,6   140,3   127,8   82,7   127,04   6440   126,3   1860   1760   127,35   6480   155,89   100   11,3
127,65   139,1   137,3   125,6   79,6   127,95   6600   123,3   1860   1770   128,25   6640   157,17   99,6   12,8

Is not as clear as with excel, but I hope to be easier to you
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 03:28:39 PM by diegogpb » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2014, 04:30:24 PM »

1- I didn't post it because you don't like vcds logas and I made them with that, anyway, here there are the logs.

Argh, they aren't comma separated, they're semicolon separated due to locale Sad

Quote
2- Yes, I know, you told it to me... that's te reason for mapping LDRXN like that. But I don't understand why there's an actual load measuring block. It's a calculation?, It's wrong then...

1) the load->boost calculation is an approximation
2) the MAF/RPM->load calculation is an approximation

In ME, measured load and specified load are completely separate.

PLEASE RESEARCH WHAT LOAD MEANS before doing any more tuning!

Quote
3- I think (maybe i'm wrong) there are some n75/wastegate actuator map, based on rpms or whatever. Otherwise I can't understand why the duty cycle at hig revs isn't 90-95%

Please, step away from tuner pro until you understand EXACTLY what you are editing and why.

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« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2014, 05:10:53 AM »

Argh, they aren't comma separated, they're semicolon separated due to locale Sad

1) the load->boost calculation is an approximation
2) the MAF/RPM->load calculation is an approximation

In ME, measured load and specified load are completely separate.

PLEASE RESEARCH WHAT LOAD MEANS before doing any more tuning!

Please, step away from tuner pro until you understand EXACTLY what you are editing and why.



Load is the cylinder filling. In theory, proportional to boost with an offset, in practice, simply related to it.
I'm not using an already existing XDF, I made myself the definition file with the very only maps I know, so I can't touch any unknown parameter.
I'm tuning KFLBTS, Lambda tarjet once exceeded EGT threshold. Richer mixtures prevent from knock, so adding a bit of fuel I'll get rid of those timming retardations, and of course, KFFDLBTS is 0 to ensure specified lambda is only managed by KFLBTS
Now the n75, full DC = Closed wastegate, the less DC, the more opened wastegate. So now it comes the question: If the car demands more boost than obtains, why the n75 DC is not 95% (At this hig revs)?

I think I'm right in my comment, If I'm not, all the corrections are welcome.
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nyet
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« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2014, 11:15:32 AM »

Now the n75, full DC = Closed wastegate, the less DC, the more opened wastegate. So now it comes the question: If the car demands more boost than obtains, why the n75 DC is not 95% (At this hig revs)?

I limit. Please review how PIDs work.


http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=517.msg33880#msg33880

Also, please consider using ME7Logger, you can't log all the PID variables with VCDS
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 11:20:53 AM by nyet » Logged

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dgpb
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« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2014, 12:15:24 PM »

I limit. Please review how PIDs work.


http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=517.msg33880#msg33880

Also, please consider using ME7Logger, you can't log all the PID variables with VCDS

Thank you very much nyet, I've just taken a look of it and seems to be exactly what I was looking for. This night I'll read it carefully and also s4wiki related things

And I know, me7logger is a must. I have to use it. Even It's easier for the members to take a look than a cvs file

Aggg, There's a subject in my degree (Industrial engineering, I failed this subject) called Industrial Automation wich I particulary hate. The last part of it is about controllers, for example PIDs... Learning to remap my car is gonna help me with that hahahaha
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 12:31:45 PM by diegogpb » Logged
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« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2014, 12:33:12 PM »

Also, don't forget that I limit has adaptation trims as well.
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« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2014, 12:47:18 PM »

Also, don't forget that I limit has adaptation trims as well.

I Suposed to... me7 likes corrections too much

As I see, It's something like (Requested Lambda) = KFLBTS + (KFFDLBTS * Another map that I don't remember), so zero KFFDLBTS makes lambda tarjet following exactly KFLBTS ?

Sould I zero/one that maps? Or is better to leave them as they are? The PID correction ones, I mean. Well, maybe It's already explained in your link, probably a reply is not needed Wink
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 12:52:08 PM by diegogpb » Logged
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