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Author Topic: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 2.7t ME7.1 S4 (APB 8D0907551M-0002)  (Read 210967 times)
FlyboyS4
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The goal of this thread is to use a collaborative effort to provide guidance about some of the basic concepts and procedures involved with creating a stage 1 tune for the 2.7T S4 starting from a stock file.

Here's a quick link to the post where work done on the stage 2 phase is contained.
Stage 2 Change Summary

This page is the summary of the Stage 1 phase.
Stage 1 Changes

Files
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=6695.msg92145#msg92145


[editors note]
The stage1/stage2 nomenclature used here is a bit confusing and a bit non-standard. Typically, stage2 refers to full exhaust (dp+catback). I don't really know what stage2 refers to here - nyet
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 10:58:53 AM by nyet » Logged
ddillenger
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 06:29:03 PM »

Ok. So what we want here is a clear, concise list of what a stage 1 file should consist of.

Guidelines that must be adhered to:

1. Safe for STOCK HARDWARE.
2. Safe for either 91 or 93 octane
3. Simplicity

I think we start with a list of maps. If you feel something should be included, post your reasoning. I will be cleaning this thread up periodically to make sure it stays easy to follow Smiley
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vdubnation
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 08:16:57 PM »

I think we should show detailed information of each map what the axis's mean and when you change a value what it does.

« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 08:18:40 PM by vdubnation » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 12:13:03 AM »

My list:

LDRXN - requested load cap (increase boost)
NMAX - rev limiter (easy, because it is a single value!)
VMAX - speed limiter (easy, because it is a single value!)
LAMFA - one of three ways to do fueling.. I'm not sure it is the easiest, because it requires two somewhat confusing related changes:
1) req torque axis - changing axis data is tricky, and to make matters worse, stock axis values are kinda screwed up
2) low pass filter/time constant changes - the time constant value is somewhat odd, in that its units are strange.

We could alternately do fueling via BTS or KR, but both have their own oddities. Opinions?

KFZW/KFZW2 - timing. The easiest thing to do for the guide is to tell the noob to just keep the two maps the same in high load/rpm areas... would talking about cam position make things overly complicated?

NWPMBBR/VMPMBBR - allow left foot braking (easy, single values!)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 12:18:04 AM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
FlyboyS4
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 06:37:41 AM »

In TunerPro, CTRL-F for NMAX

Change this numeric value to 7000 or 7200 (I did 7000), save the bin, then apply ME7Sum and ME7Check, then it is ready to be flashed to the ECU using the Nefmoto flasher.

*Edit* I noticed in the S4 Tuning Wiki it mentions bumping up NMAXF (RPM DTC limit) to 300 rpm over NMAX, so I have revised my tune accordingly.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 08:20:00 AM by FlyboyS4 » Logged
NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 10:57:36 AM »

Step 1. Learn about internal combustion engines and understand how and why they work.

Then everything else can fall into place.

Far too many people don't seem to understand even basic concepts absolutely vital to engine tuning of any kind.

Most people have no idea why timing should be removed somewhere and added else where except for maybe they've heard/read that peak TQ will have the lowest value (not always true) or something to that respect. Or why targeting a certain lambda value on one engine/setup won't work for another. Most don't understand the other many influences that happen in a dynamic running engine.

If just creating a flow chart is the purpose of this thread then ignore my comments I suppose.  But changing a bunch of numbers around that someone can only relate to as more is better here and less is better there because someone said so isn't "tuning".
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Google Talk: NOTORIOUS.VR
n00bs start here: http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning
ddillenger
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 03:15:48 PM »

Step 1. Learn about internal combustion engines and understand how and why they work.

Then everything else can fall into place.

Far too many people don't seem to understand even basic concepts absolutely vital to engine tuning of any kind.

Most people have no idea why timing should be removed somewhere and added else where except for maybe they've heard/read that peak TQ will have the lowest value (not always true) or something to that respect. Or why targeting a certain lambda value on one engine/setup won't work for another. Most don't understand the other many influences that happen in a dynamic running engine.

If just creating a flow chart is the purpose of this thread then ignore my comments I suppose.  But changing a bunch of numbers around that someone can only relate to as more is better here and less is better there because someone said so isn't "tuning".

I understand, and agree. One of the prerequisites here is that people have a basic understanding of how an engine operates.
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FlyboyS4
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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 06:52:54 PM »

If just creating a flow chart is the purpose of this thread then ignore my comments I suppose.  But changing a bunch of numbers around that someone can only relate to as more is better here and less is better there because someone said so isn't "tuning".

My vision was to treat the process like an apprenticeship, seeking out a few mentors to take people willing to learn through the process.
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dozer103
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2014, 06:15:15 AM »

My vision was to treat the process like an apprenticeship, seeking out a few mentors to take people willing to learn through the process.

I fall into that category. Hardware on the car is almost straight and ready for tuning, will be ready to install downpipes soon and open possibility for some higher power levels. Getting software necessary for tuning downloaded and figured out and will be comparing some files to understand the changes being made before I try to flash anything. A how-to would be incredibly useful.
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FlyboyS4
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2014, 07:38:26 PM »

After looking at the VAVMX/VMAX (Speed Limiter) that Nye referred to (value displayed in km/hr) I decided to leave mine at the stock 143 mph (230 kph) level because that is faster than I anticipate driving.

Is Grad C a unit?

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masterj
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2014, 09:26:22 PM »

After looking at the VAVMX/VMAX (Speed Limiter) that Nye referred to (value displayed in km/hr) I decided to leave mine at the stock 143 mph (230 kph) level because that is faster than I anticipate driving.

Is Grad C a unit?



Grad C is degrees in celsius.
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Lost
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2014, 09:29:24 PM »

After looking at the VAVMX/VMAX (Speed Limiter) that Nye referred to (value displayed in km/hr) I decided to leave mine at the stock 143 mph (230 kph) level because that is faster than I anticipate driving.

Is Grad C a unit?



Where van i get such Nice defined M xdf? Would you share?
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S4addict
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2014, 10:01:42 PM »

if you have the mbox xdf from here you just need to change how you view the file.
to paramater category and itll show it in the forum of the clean folders
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MoparFreak69
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2014, 10:35:18 PM »

My vision was to treat the process like an apprenticeship, seeking out a few mentors to take people willing to learn through the process.

I would love to learn the process! I am a mechanic and fully understand the basics of engine operation, but I have never played with software and just need guidance on how a certain setting not only changes parameters of the aspect it pertains to, but how it references other associated paramters to come up with a final value.
Say ignition timing for instance. In a distributor style ignition system you really can only adjust base ignition timing and the advance curve. In my 2001 GTI with a 1.8t I believe that timing not only changes due to engine speed, but boost level, driver requested load value, coolant temperature, ambient temperature, knock detection, etc., and is capable of varying individual cylinder timing if I'm not mistaken.

Basically I would love for someone to guide me through what changes affect what, and how it affects everything around it so I can grasp the whole big picture of how the Motronic system manages an engine.
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Bi-turbo
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2014, 03:13:40 AM »

How fair would you suggest to run the timing on stage 1? An commercial tune i had on my S4 when i 1st had it logged 9deg at 5860rpm with .8bar i dont have the file or ever did but have the VCDS logs.

The map was ok produced 305bhp

Went really well but havning not drivern a standard S4 and them jumping to Stage 2 i cant compare.

Im happy with a stage 1 map for S4 but i need AFR min so i can flash it and log it would prefer knock detection but dont have the funds for that yet.
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