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Author Topic: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 2.7t ME7.1 S4 (APB 8D0907551M-0002)  (Read 473316 times)
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« Reply #525 on: August 07, 2015, 09:06:41 AM »

My boost profile returned to what it was before, where the requested boost was higher than the actual boost with only a slight spike at the peak.  I'm going to split the difference across DIMX in changed cells and log again, unless I should try something else?

Here's my logs for today, not sure what happened in a4-log1-aug7 with the power and torque curves, I ended up enabling one of the speed values to be logged and it whacked the whole thing.  Boost profile looks nice and I'll work on raising the actual boost up.

Today was a bit cooler in the morning than the last evenings I tested here in Ottawa, Canada for me, at 20C(68F) and 58% humidity.

http://streetandtrack.ca/afterhours/tuning/s4/a4-log2-aug7.csv
http://streetandtrack.ca/afterhours/tuning/s4/a4-log2-aug7.csv
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« Reply #526 on: August 07, 2015, 09:58:05 AM »

I try to be mindful about not logging a lot of variables unnecessarily.  Stuff in your file like the coolant temp, maf voltage, airflow over the throttle body, cpu load, I'd drop those unless a reason comes up to log them.  It looks to me that during your pulls the selected gear is not reading correctly, you'll start in 3, it'll suddenly shift to 2, then a while later back to 3.

I think trying to massage DIMX to get the actual boost where you need it is a good path for now.  I've still been trying to get my setting just right, but the boost curve is doing what it's intended to.  There seems to be a difference in how your two cars boost responds with the same settings I'm using.

If you want to email me the bin you are using I can check to see where the differences are at.
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« Reply #527 on: August 11, 2015, 05:54:26 PM »

Hitachi vs Bosch? Not that it should make much difference.

I've emailed you the latest bin that was flashed to my car (pre-checksum fix), thanks for taking a look.

I'm going to adjust the DIMX values tonight or tomorrow night and re-flash my car to see what happens.
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« Reply #528 on: August 12, 2015, 04:44:33 PM »

So I was looking at DIMX tonight, and compared it with your latest revision I had, and noticed that you had adjusted values in spots that I needed adjusting in to force more boost.

I ended up copying your values over to my bin and giving it a try, here's 2 runs:

http://streetandtrack.ca/afterhours/tuning/s4/a5-log1-aug12.csv
http://streetandtrack.ca/afterhours/tuning/s4/a5-log2-aug12.csv

Overall looking better, that spike isn't as high and it doesn't dip down as low afterwards.

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« Reply #529 on: August 21, 2015, 05:12:39 AM »

Progress in a way.  I've been trying to chase down why there's a difference between the initial boost responses the three cars currently active in the tune have shown.  Looks like the N75 valve adjustment may be the source.

Update: Adjusted DIMX with the new N75 setting.



and result attached.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 08:10:28 AM by FlyboyS4 » Logged
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« Reply #530 on: August 21, 2015, 09:42:41 AM »

Nice find!

BTW your I-limit still has a pretty odd shape compared to req boost.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

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Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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« Reply #531 on: August 21, 2015, 09:48:08 AM »

As you can see, I-Max is completely inappropriate for requested boost. It should (roughly) be the dc required to make requested at every point. Req boost is rising until 3000rpm, but i-max does the opposite. Then it starts tapering, but I-max is increasing.

So:

By 2600 rpm, we should be seeing requested boost, which is around 16psi.

If you look later in the graph (at 3100rpm) , 16psi requires around 82-83 wgc. At 2600, I-max is around 82, and given that Q2 is going to result in at least -3 or -4, we'll probably need an I-Max of around 85-86 at 2600 rpm.

By the time req boost is at its max (3000rpm), I-max is almost at its minimum! Given that we probably need at least 87ish dc to make 16 psi, I-max should be rising to match the requested boost.

Also, the requested boost should really not be increasing during late spool, it should really be flat (or tapering). This will make tuning the PID easier (since I will accumlate faster, it is more likely to follow i-max).

Finally, I have omitted linearization for the time being since it only complicates the discussion: suffice it to say the purpose is to have a normalized dc->actual boost curve.

That is to say, you need more DC up top for a given boost, so LDRL should be tuned such that a COMPLETELY flat pre-lin DC should result in a post-lin DC that is increasing sufficiently to keep the boost at a given PSI.

Ideally, when tuning i-max, you should be thinking about corresponding changes in LDRL accordingly. If you are finding you are having to have an increasing i-max to keep up with a flat boost request, instead of having a rising i-max, consider a rising LDRL instead.

Reposting so you know what I am referring to.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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« Reply #532 on: August 21, 2015, 10:35:01 AM »

Thanks for confirming my hunch that the DIMX still needed some work.

I also noticed, though have not posted a chart of it, that my desired AFR is going richer than the other cars.  That seems strange because I have gone back to the S4 EGT sensors and returned the TABGBTS and KFLBTS to the stock values.

Nef_N75-2 data file
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« Reply #533 on: August 21, 2015, 10:37:45 AM »

Thanks for confirming my hunch that the DIMX still needed some work.

I also noticed, though have not posted a chart of it, that my desired AFR is going richer than the other cars.  That seems strange because I have gone back to the S4 EGT sensors and returned the TABGBTS and KFLBTS to the stock values.

Nef_N75-2 data file

There are so many variables that go into the BTS fueling (and the EGT model) that I am not surprised. You'd have to flatten them all out (or log a lot more stuff) to nail down the root cause. Also, I don't think the enrichment you are seeing is from ATR anyway, just BTS from modeled EGT.

By the time ATR triggers, it is WAY too late...

BTW I don't see anything wrong with letting the stock BTS do it's thing. if you want, you can prevent it from going much below 0.7 by flattening the bottom of the BTS map, but I wouldn't recommend it. You can also numb DLBTS (set to 0 <=6%) if you want.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 10:44:03 AM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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« Reply #534 on: August 21, 2015, 10:06:21 PM »

A couple of things I've noticed differing between the Hitachi and Bosch bins:

Variable/Hitachi Value/Bosch Value

CLAATR / 19 / 0
CLAATR2 / 19 / 0
CLAATS / 19 / 0
CLAATS2 / 19 / 0
TABGSS / 979 / 1229
TABGSS2 / 979 / 1229

Should they be different?
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« Reply #535 on: August 21, 2015, 10:14:44 PM »

A couple of things I've noticed differing between the Hitachi and Bosch bins:

Variable/Hitachi Value/Bosch Value

CLAATR / 19 / 0
CLAATR2 / 19 / 0
CLAATS / 19 / 0
CLAATS2 / 19 / 0
TABGSS / 979 / 1229
TABGSS2 / 979 / 1229

Should they be different?

Dunno but I'm not surprised, there are a ton of other changes between the old bosch files and M box.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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« Reply #536 on: August 22, 2015, 05:35:21 AM »

A couple of things I've noticed differing between the Hitachi and Bosch bins:

Variable/Hitachi Value/Bosch Value

CLAATR / 19 / 0
CLAATR2 / 19 / 0
CLAATS / 19 / 0
CLAATS2 / 19 / 0
TABGSS / 979 / 1229
TABGSS2 / 979 / 1229

Should they be different?

From the S4 tuning wiki those are all related to EGT sensors
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« Reply #537 on: August 22, 2015, 06:12:56 AM »

There are so many variables that go into the BTS fueling (and the EGT model) that I am not surprised. You'd have to flatten them all out (or log a lot more stuff) to nail down the root cause. Also, I don't think the enrichment you are seeing is from ATR anyway, just BTS from modeled EGT.

By the time ATR triggers, it is WAY too late...

BTW I don't see anything wrong with letting the stock BTS do it's thing. if you want, you can prevent it from going much below 0.7 by flattening the bottom of the BTS map, but I wouldn't recommend it. You can also numb DLBTS (set to 0 <=6%) if you want.

Aside from DIMX, is there anything else you would advise improving with the tune?  If I accept that the AFR is where it should be, the timing also looks good.  I don't know if there's anything left to do.
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« Reply #538 on: August 22, 2015, 03:49:44 PM »

A couple of things I've noticed differing between the Hitachi and Bosch bins:

Variable/Hitachi Value/Bosch Value

CLAATR / 19 / 0
CLAATR2 / 19 / 0
CLAATS / 19 / 0
CLAATS2 / 19 / 0
TABGSS / 979 / 1229
TABGSS2 / 979 / 1229

Should they be different?

Then this is not a stock bin.
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« Reply #539 on: August 22, 2015, 04:40:24 PM »

Then this is not a stock bin.


I was comparing using the bins you posted on the third page.
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