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Author Topic: 1.8t: electronic SUV via N249 output  (Read 101687 times)
golfputtputt
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« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2017, 06:57:52 AM »

Ok, small update. Thought this thread was archived, not moved here...

Attached is an image of where my eDV is located. In stock location where it would be in OEM format. After turbo, before cooler. I am currently running it VTA with GFB DV+ stack thingy which is working perfectly under 99% of driving conditions. Attached also is the disassembled document of the DV function block in the FR as posted before.

Keep in mind, that the GFB DV+ works to vent pressure when there is some, it's function requires there to be, so if a signal to the eDV solenoid says 'turn on' but there is no pressure in the charge pipe, the DV will not open and vent. If you are not using the GFB DV+ it most likely won't matter because the tuning here is pretty sound. Signal commands that it opens when it should and does not fail to open when there is pressure needing to be vented. I have not found much if any audible compressor surge using an oem K03.

I have changed two maps, one of which needs to be tweaked. THLDUVD and KFSDLDSUA. I've messed with GWPLDU alot with no drastic change in operating function which is good. USUALLY, when driving, if you lift off throttle until closed (as if to shift) you want the DV open. Under all other driving conditions, you would want it closed, to build pressure (ignoring the special function of B_ldsuas which can be addressed later as a nicety, but i won't be doing it because im VTA with Maf upstream).

Issue that I'm having (I will post a log later) is with PT tuning. If you commence accelerating at WOT, then lift off throttle hard and catch it at half throttle, the turbo will still be producing boost (about 4.5ish psi on oem k03 or K04) but throttle lift will trigger B_ldsuad to become true and DV will open, blasting 5 psi either into atmo. (my setup) or bypass it back into turbo mouth. This will cause a soft code as I have intermittently.

I theorize that you can use the boost error based variable function of B_ldsuad to keep DV closed under these hard, part throttle lift conditions but I'm  still attempting to look for patterns and smooth out all the units of measurement in all these things (log is in mbar, map is in hpa, boost gauge and my brain works in psi). I'm trying to search through my log to calculate the: delta boost error*PIDLDSUA+current boost error so I can compare it to the oem KFSDLDSUA map. If I see a pattern, I may be able to tune it to keep the DV closed when I want it to.

But, I rarely see this condition occur and when it does, it's usually under race conditions, track day, autox etc. I would like the code gone though....
TL;DR: the eDV will work very well with VERY minimal tuning changes to n249 signal protocol (THLDUVD and KFSDLDSUA) but there is one anomaly that I have yet to figure out. It's nice not having all that pneumatic based STUFF clogging up your engine function.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 07:02:34 AM by golfputtputt » Logged
golfputtputt
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« Reply #91 on: June 04, 2017, 07:03:24 PM »

sorry for delay. Here is the log that displays the anomaly. At the very end, you can see the turbo is making 5 psi still after the harsh drop and catch in accel ped percentage. During this time, because of the drop, B_Ldsua turns on and opens the DV and vents.

My desire is, for B_ldsua to continue to open the DV when I lift off throttle to part throttle but not keep it open. Like a quick burst to keep the turbo safe, just enough so I don't loose spool.
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Cookiez
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« Reply #92 on: August 09, 2017, 12:57:02 AM »

I'm having trouble locating the functions i need to alter, anyone know the locations for a 32HN 0001 ecu?
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golfputtputt
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« Reply #93 on: February 06, 2018, 09:20:42 AM »

Update to this:

I took apart my engine, re-bored to 1.9L and installed a GT2860RS turbo.

Now the eDV no longer works properly. I have not changed any variables in the software relating to the eDV when I reinstalled the motor. I'll post some logs a little later but everything that I'm seeing within points to the eDV firing at the proper time and when I ask it to (essentially only on pedal lift) but I'm still getting poor results with DTCs of P1297 and P1200.

At first I thought perhaps the eDV is opening when it should not (due to a pressure differential map in B_LDSUA turning B_LDSUAD to true) but B_LDSUA seems to be false whenever boost is building. (as it should)

I did a cabin test to see if the valve is indeed opening, it is. With the valve unplugged i see a power line voltage of 8v and a firing voltage of 14 (0v and 14v when valve is plugged in) so I assume this is just a floating, unloaded voltage. I need to perform further confirmations to ensure that I did not fry my ECU n249 circuit. Figured I'd plug in my spare ECU and see if it operates properly.

With the eDV in, it bucks and ultimately falls into a 5% WGDC limited limp mode.

I've tried every revision eDV vw makes including GFB DV+. All of which result in this state. Installing the pneumatic DV solves all these issues so that definitely confirms the eDV is to blame.
I will have to look into this further at another time. The fact it used to work is inspiring, just gotta get it back to that state.

Oh, also I have reverted to using this in recirculation mode.
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Audiquattro44
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« Reply #94 on: October 09, 2020, 10:41:36 AM »

Hello there is already news here.
Also converted to eDV. But he always brings the errorcode P1200. Is it possible to delete it so that it no longer comes?
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nyet
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« Reply #95 on: October 09, 2020, 11:04:30 AM »

Hello there is already news here.
Also converted to eDV. But he always brings the errorcode P1200. Is it possible to delete it so that it no longer comes?

Don't use an eDV, do NOT delete. It really is that simple.

If you must use an eDV, getting it to work is up to you, and likely requires enough technical knowhow that when you have enough knowledge to know how to fix it you also realize
1) don't use an eDV
2) don't delete the n249
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
TeknoFi
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« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2022, 12:37:24 PM »

This is from facebook, all credit to the author, wanted to share this here:

Quote
*Manual for electric diverter valve on 1.8T*
Hello all,
Since the instructions for installing an electric diverter valve are very popular in the German TT group, I would like to share them with you here as well.
First of all: I do not take any liability for possible damages, this instruction is only for information.
Important: This is no "N249 delete instruction". The original control function is completely preserved, but the complex vacuum control, which was necessary at that time, is omitted. Instead, an electric DV is used, as was the case in later VAG models.
What are the advantages of the conversion?
- Reduced complexity of the vacuum control
- omission of the N249 incl. vacuum accumulator -> cleaner look
- Orig. DV often opens from 0,2bar boost pressure unintentionally
- faster control behavior, thus significantly improved response of the engine
- improved durability
- total costs under 70€
What are the disadvantages of the conversion?
- Possibly N249 error code with BAM engines (cause still uncertain?)
- Installation at BAM only possible with DV relocation kit (lack of space)
- Possibly larger pressure peaks at load change than with series part - I'll try to verify this with logs
- Legality uncertain, may not be allowed (?)
A Pierburg valve is used, which is normally used by Fiat / Alfa. No adapter is needed, it is a single part, so no leaks can occur on the DV itself.
The connection diameter of 28mm is slightly larger than the original (25mm), in the rubber intake hose fits without problems, with silicone I had to press a little.
I recommend to buy a meter of vacuum line (3-4mm inner diameter) to be able to route the new lines. Alternatively, something can be built from the old lines, then you should work especially carefully when removing.
Installation:
(This manual is for the European / German TT, US spec TTs have N249 on the cam cover, but technically it’s the same)
First we have to take care of the holder of the control valves N112 and N249 in front of the intake manifold. The N249 (German driver's side) can be removed along with all the vacuum lines there. The vacuum reservoir on the valve cover is also removed in this process.
Two new vacuum lines are then installed:
N112 to secondary air injection valve (to the "right" in the photo).
N112 to intake manifold (on the photo to "top")
The final lines and valves in front of the intake manifold can be seen in the attached photo.
The e-DV is mounted in place of the original DV. The "left" connection in the photo goes into the pressure side, the "upper" connection to the suction side.
Note: the DV apparently works even if you install it upside down, but it was designed by the OEM to be installed as previously described.
Then follows the electrical connection of the new e-DV. To do this, the connector that was previously attached to the N249 is connected to the e-DV using adapter cables from the connectors listed.
I have already ordered the two plugs with cables and crimped them watertight, so the adapter cable, which is about 60cm long, easily reaches from the intake manifold to the intake hose.
The electric DV is now driven in Germany by many TT owners, a real plug and play solution that fixes some problem areas.

Quote
If interested: The sound of the valve is decent, it hisses quite restrained.
Attention: please do not confuse the plugs of N112 and N249, they are identical.
On engines without N249 vacuum control (for example AGU) the conversion is not possible.
The following parts are needed (these are German links, depending on your country please do your own research or check availability).
e-DV:
https://www.motointegrator.de/artikel/553903-schubumluftventil-lader-pierburg-701835060
Plug instead of the N249: https://www.automotive-connectors.com/bosch-1928402448-pt-full-assembled-2-way-jetronic-mating-connector.html
Plug to new DV: https://www.automotive-connectors.com/bosch-1928403698-pt-full-assembled-2-way-female-compact-connector-1-a.html
« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 12:39:26 PM by TeknoFi » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2022, 01:54:50 PM »

I still don't get it.

What problem does an eDV solve?
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
TeknoFi
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« Reply #98 on: October 30, 2022, 08:17:20 AM »

It works pretty good.

Got rid of a pile of vacuum junk
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aef
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« Reply #99 on: October 30, 2022, 11:19:33 AM »

Quote from: TeknoFi
It works pretty good.

can you please post both pictures in a better size or the logs itself
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TeknoFi
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« Reply #100 on: October 30, 2022, 11:53:10 AM »

can you please post both pictures in a better size or the logs itself

here is logs
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Blazius
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« Reply #101 on: October 30, 2022, 06:00:43 PM »

 I am sorry, but I am pretty sure 500 mbar spike is actually higher than a stock DV lol.  Unless that is a log with a stock busted vacuum DV? because that is way too high of a spike.
Look at first log, 1800 to 2300.


I have a 100 mbar spike on 710P.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 06:05:45 PM by Blazius » Logged
TeknoFi
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« Reply #102 on: October 30, 2022, 08:46:30 PM »

I am sorry, but I am pretty sure 500 mbar spike is actually higher than a stock DV lol.  Unless that is a log with a stock busted vacuum DV? because that is way too high of a spike.
Look at first log, 1800 to 2300.


I have a 100 mbar spike on 710P.

It was not busted DV, tested. OEM 710N. And vacuum was from intake manifold, no leaks. Tried another DV, RKXTech DV, got little bit lower but still ~0,2-0,3 peak.

I do think the OE ones struggle just flowing the air mass without N249.


« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 08:51:03 PM by TeknoFi » Logged
aef
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« Reply #103 on: October 30, 2022, 11:33:23 PM »

but isnt it pointless to compare a non-N249 suv with a esuv? I mean it takes time to build up the vacuum without a N249 attached. Its kind of apples against oranges...
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prj
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« Reply #104 on: October 31, 2022, 03:34:34 AM »

but isnt it pointless to compare a non-N249 suv with a esuv? I mean it takes time to build up the vacuum without a N249 attached. Its kind of apples against oranges...
It's like letting guys in wheelchairs compete in the same race with sprinter athletes.
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