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Author Topic: Nefmoto community project: Stage1 1.8t ME7.5 A4 (8E0909518AK-0003)  (Read 502520 times)
SB_GLI
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« Reply #180 on: October 21, 2014, 09:28:37 AM »

I had anther look at the timing maps, and I'm still stumped. I'm seeing load values in the rpm-vs-load line that are off the chart in the timing map, what values does the ecu use in this case? If someone could post a screen of some stock and modified timing maps side-by-side, with the rpm/load graph I might understand better what is necessary. The degree of variation in these maps and how important they are to the health of the engine is a little scary to me.

To be honest I think I'm in over my head with the timing adjustment. Would anyone like to "pick up the torch"? I would gladly test/log any changes so that we have a series of logs on the same car.

Okay, I'll try to illustrate the initial timing changes that I would make.

In the image entitled "new timing", you see the current timing curve which is the bright green line.  I've drawn with blue the timing curve I would like to achieve, more or less.  The changes noted below is my attempt at making the green like look more like the blue line I drew in.

Starting with the original values, I can see that we are making load that is off the end of the kfzw load axis.  So, I first would modify that axis to better fit our application.  In the last log I can see our load goes from 165 early on in the revs and tapers almost linearly down to 128 at 6000.  I will pick 165 as our last axis value, and move the 140 row back where 130 is now.  I then took the values from the last column (was 140) and pasted them into the second to last column (now 140).  Then I just took the values of the last row and took 1.5 degrees off of it.  I looked at the graph to verify that all the new values made a smooth transition at the end of the map.

The image entitled one shows where I then took areas from log where the timing flattens out, I added 2.25 degrees in the areas that needed more in the upper revs, and 1.5 degrees in the lower areas.  Now, you'll see I end up with a map that's lumpy.  This is were you can unleash your inner artist and smooth it all out.  I defined the two areas that I just modified as my "high points" of the maps, so I won't adjust those much more upward.  After you get done smoothing the curve, you should end up with something more like the image entitled two.

Most of the changes that I have made here equates to around 1.5 to 2.25 degrees advancement over the stock map.  It's tricky to see that though due to how the load axis was modified.

I would then take these changes, flash them, log them, and look for any timing correction factors.  If there are any CF's I would retard a bit at that rpm/load that the CFs started.  If we are still at 0 for cfs, I would continue to advance the timing in increments of 1.5-3.0 in the areas needed until I just barely start seeing CF's and then finally adjust that area down a hair.

Hope that all makes sense.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 10:08:46 AM by SB_GLI » Logged
SB_GLI
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« Reply #181 on: October 21, 2014, 09:30:18 AM »

The highest axis value still on the chart

Is there no interpolation after the last axis value?
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ddillenger
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« Reply #182 on: October 21, 2014, 10:12:53 AM »

The ecu uses the data in the last cell for any areas in excess of that axis data. No extrapolation takes place.
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vjborelli
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« Reply #183 on: October 21, 2014, 11:54:03 AM »

I might be wrong here, but I've been trying to map out all 3 of the US B6 1.8T ECM's (F, AF, AK) and as I understand, there is a different in timing conversion calculations due to the different processors used in the AF & AK ECM. The only way I can get the injection times to match up between the two different processors is through the following:

518F has a 20mhz processor @ conversion 0.00266667

518AF & 518AK has a 40mhz processor @ conversion 0.004

518F (2002)
03 A5 (LoHi) = 933 (DEC) * 0.0001111112 "0.002666667 / 24" = 0.10367


518AF (2003) & 518AK (2004-2005)
02 6E (LoHi) = 622 (DEC) * 0.0001666667 "0.004 / 24" = 0.10367
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #184 on: October 21, 2014, 12:05:58 PM »

The ecu uses the data in the last cell for any areas in excess of that axis data. No extrapolation takes place.
This is good to know.
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thelastleroy
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« Reply #185 on: October 21, 2014, 07:27:56 PM »

 Cool Cool Cool BIG THANKS to all the people taking time out of their day to help with this project  Cool Cool Cool

I took the plunge and made some *small* adjustments to the top end timing on map kfzw (which I assume will have me covered, since we've determined the camshaft angle isn't advancing in this range).

I followed the rpm/load graph line and made increases of 2.25* to the 6720 rpm areas, tapering down to .75* in the 4000rpm area. I then went to work "smoothing out" these adjustments in graph view. I double-checked my numbers (to make sure I didn't add too much or somewhere I didn't intend to) and flashed the file to the car. I also extended the LDRXN profile to 5k, and rounded out the adjustment. Version 9 log tomorrow, what parameters do I need to log to watch for timing corrections?

« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 08:08:58 PM by thelastleroy » Logged
thelastleroy
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« Reply #186 on: October 21, 2014, 08:06:11 PM »

Hey DD,

What map addresses do I need to add the pushbutton SAI, EVAP, CAT deletes? I've been meaning to get around to adding these to match the s4 project xdf.
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ktm733
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« Reply #187 on: October 21, 2014, 08:34:13 PM »

This is good to know.

Yes exactly what I was trying to say. I compared them and it didn't line up. Also fueling maps didn't line up either. Atleast there is a defined 518f file I can compare to. Also to let everybody know don't load ak file onto 518f! It will not run then its time for boot mode. Learn from my mistakes.
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nyet
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« Reply #188 on: October 21, 2014, 08:49:54 PM »

Yes exactly what I was trying to say.

No, extrapolation/interpolation is an entirely different topic.
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

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Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
thelastleroy
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« Reply #189 on: October 22, 2014, 04:25:24 AM »

log
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #190 on: October 22, 2014, 05:21:38 AM »

log

The changes to timing look very nice.  I still think we can advance more, especially down low.  We are still not seeing any timing CFs anywhere in the pull.  These are the IgnitionRetardCyl1-4 (dwkrz) variables.  Also, wkrm holds the average CF on all cylinders.  zwist is your timing angle.

I see we are hitting bts fueling again though at the end.  What do you have TABGBTS set to?

I still think you can bump up LDRXN a bit more.  I'd try to make the load/boost plateau more up to 4,500rpm and the drop as illustrated.
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nyet
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« Reply #191 on: October 22, 2014, 09:22:55 AM »

log

Less ZK still. It still doesn't look like you touched that. Also, BTS...
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ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
thelastleroy
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« Reply #192 on: October 22, 2014, 01:39:03 PM »

TABGBTS was 1001, upping that to 1100 for next flash. I'm also going to set ZK back to stock, as nyet is still seeing a rough lamfa curve? A bit more LDRXN in the 3-5k range, a bit more timing. Log and file soon
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nyet
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« Reply #193 on: October 22, 2014, 01:46:52 PM »

I'm also going to set ZK back to stock, as nyet is still seeing a rough lamfa curve?

Dude, use ECUxPlot yourself Tongue geez. You should ALREADY be using it to verify every change you make.

Stock ZK is probably too low, do something in between.

BUT VERIFY WITH ECUXPLOT... don't post, and wait for comment here. You're doing it the long way around ;P

Flash, log, graph, adjust, flash, log, graph

Not

flash, log, post, wait for somebody to graph it for you and/or make comments.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 01:48:25 PM by nyet » Logged

ME7.1 tuning guide (READ FIRST)
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum checker/corrrector for ME7.x

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
SB_GLI
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« Reply #194 on: October 22, 2014, 02:04:27 PM »

Dude, use ECUxPlot yourself Tongue geez. You should ALREADY be using it to verify every change you make.

Stock ZK is probably too low, do something in between.

BUT VERIFY WITH ECUXPLOT... don't post, and wait for comment here. You're doing it the long way around ;P

Flash, log, graph, adjust, flash, log, graph

Not

flash, log, post, wait for somebody to graph it for you and/or make comments.

Or just use VisualME7Logger to playback the log you just took.  Of course I am partial to VME7L Wink  Many ways to skin the cat, but yeah, you need to be able to view and understand your own logs.
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