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Author Topic: TVUB for MED9, or in other words KLTVTSV - How to understand it  (Read 34603 times)
ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2015, 12:29:38 PM »

They are like the TSI injectors but with a concave nozzle bowl instead of convex.


http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?;topic=7259.0
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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2015, 03:14:07 PM »

OK, I think I got a piece of the puzzle figured out for using RS4 injectors. At least for the cold start issue. This is my theory that I am going to test out.

If you look at the start condition, the engine uses split injection. The first injection is around 300 degrees BTDC in the intake stroke, and the second injection happens around 60 degrees in the compression stroke. Now if you think about the purpose of the two injections, you see the first injection gives a very lean homogeneous mixture that produces a small amount of soot compared with a traditional engine using overly rich conditions to start the engine. This won't fire by itself, at least not in a way that would provide smooth starts and a good idle. So you fire a second injection during the compression stroke that concentrates fuel around the spark plug to give it a little boost and idle smoothly with a combined lean mixture for emissions.

So when a person builds an engine with flat top pistons, lower compression, and larger RS4 injectors, you basically mess up this second shot condition. Now the RS4 injectors have more lag at the small injection times for split injection, so first you need a little more compensation during these small injection pulses. To do this you adjust KLTVTSV.

Also the second shot mixture isn't as efficient at being concentrated next to the spark plug. To fix this you can fire the second shot closer to TDC to help keep the charge next to the spark when it goes off. To do this you adjust the two split condition compression stroke maps in the low rpm/low load region. These are KFWEHK2K1 and KFWEHP2K1.

The end result should be a better concentration of fuel around the spark during cold start.
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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2015, 11:38:51 PM »

Thank you 99PWR for more information on the RS4 setup.

Now as for the setup on injector angle and lag. Here is the new complete mappack that I have defined so far for the 115G ECU. It has the updated KLTVTSV axis that Taylor fixed for me.

As for results so far. The info on the R8 has a very non-linear form (this is Taylor's, so I will not post it). However, I can say that it is everywhere with more negative values than the FSI values in KLTVTSV. I tried to put them directly into my car, and it did not run very well, so I think at least for the newer RS4 injectors, it is not the correct form. So next I tried to take 0.05 off of the entire KLTVTSV map, and I also advanced the injection timing on the compression stroke for starting rpm and loads. I have let the car sit for 5 hours to cool down, and this has resulted in a much better cold start. I will let it sit all night and see if a true cold start is also helped.

Here is my KLTVSTV



Here is my KFWEHK2K1



Here is my KFWEHP2K1


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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2015, 10:37:15 AM »

And here are RS4 maps.

As you can see the new RS4 injectors (with multi-hole tips) do not behave like the old single-hole RS4 injectors.

For people tuning the old single-hole injectors, you should first try maps more like these.




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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2015, 10:49:33 AM »

Also, tried the morning cold start, and the maps above with an advanced injection timing for the compression stroke has helped noticeably. I will continue to refine it and post results for anybody else wishing to use these newer style.
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rothcl
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« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2015, 01:39:17 PM »

This is really useful, is use 079906036D  which are injectors used in Audi and Lamborghini V10, I use them in a 2.0tfsi from an audi s3.

I copied the "lag" maps from Lamborghini, KRKATE I adapted to get  good LTFT.

I guess I need to workd on the inj. angle at cold start.

rgds
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rothcl
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2015, 01:47:41 PM »

I use KRKATE of 0,02381 with the 079906036D injectors. LTFT is around -0,5%

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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2015, 01:28:21 PM »

Thank you KmosK04 for the MED17 info.

So the plot thickens, when you look at an MED17 file for a new 2.0 TSI with multi-hole injectors, it looks kinda like a cross between the MED9 RS4 information and the FSI 2.0 data. I think you can't just adjust the tables independently, and you have to consider the combination of how they work together. I will try the whole set of TSI maps in my FSI and see what happens - For science!


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rothcl
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2015, 02:44:54 AM »

here's what I use
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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 09:29:18 AM »

Interesting. Can you post what you use for the angle maps also?
EPY
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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2015, 09:32:58 AM »

So I tried using all the angle maps and lag from the TSI MED17 to see how they match up with the new RS4 injectors. It doesn't work very well at all. I had to crank it for like 30 seconds to get it started.

EPY
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rothcl
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« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2015, 09:41:26 AM »

I use standard from S3 (I think 70,5 and 60 if i remember right).

I tried today another version of what I found in a Lambo map (inj lag) but it didn't help my slow cold start.

rgds
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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2015, 10:39:38 AM »

Try to decrease the value of the compression stroke injection angle around the low rpm/load points.

epy
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ericpaulyoung
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« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2015, 06:40:18 PM »

Does anybody have a damos for a 2011 or newer R8? That car comes with these injectors, so I would love to see what is in that file.
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rothcl
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2015, 02:42:57 AM »

I tried your values fir inj end, no change, still the same poor cold start...
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