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Author Topic: LAMBTS Algorithm  (Read 30243 times)
dgpb
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« on: October 17, 2015, 05:02:47 PM »

Hi mates. If there's already a post with a good explanation of this, I'm sorry, but I didn't find it.

I was trying to understand the calculation algorythm but the result doesn't make any sense (For sure, it's my fault. Of course it does make sense).

From S4Wiki: LAMBTS = KFLBTS + (KFDLBTS * KFFDLBTS)

From FR:


Being dlambts_w calculated by this other algorythm (LAMBTSZW, based on timing angle efficency):


My example flash is the fully defined 06A906032HN in which stock KFFDLBTS and KFDLBTS are like this:


I tuned KFLBTS so now it is: (both maps are the same but just transposed, to be more clear for those who are familiarized with winols)


Now, an example as I see it, simplifying a lot (Because I don't understand that map with a "T" at the end of LAMBTSZW, and it may be the key for my questions)

We are in the following conditions:
4000rpm
180% of Actual load
Exceeded tabgbts
A little bit of timing retardation

Outputs: (You'l have to imagine KFFDLBTS axis properly scaled, cuase I re-scaled KFMIRL, KFMIOP, KFLBTS, KFZW, KFZW2, KFZWOP, KFZWOP2... All the axis sharing maps, but zeroed the entire KFFDLBTS to manage lambdas just by KFLBTS. Now I want to learn more and use the timing based correction)
KFLBTS -> 0.8204
KFDLBTS -> -0.25
KFFDLBTS -> (imagine) 0.87
             dlambts_w -> KFDLBTS*KFFDLBTS=-0.2175
FBSTABGM -> 1.1

That will make the output of LAMBTS: Following FR

(0.8204 -1 + (-0.2175) )*1.1 +1 = 0.56319

It's an incredibly rich lambda !!!

What am I doing wrong? Can any of you explain it to me? It'd be very helpful



Ps: A quick question... Does the mean private chiptuner re-scale and adjust that many things to do a 350 bucks st1 remap? Or he just increases KFMIRL (Without KFMIOP, I've seen it) and LDRXNs, adds a bit of fuel and it's done?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 05:34:19 PM by diegogpb » Logged
mbkr89
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2015, 02:20:43 AM »

Set delta to 1. Ignition angel is depent on lambda.
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dgpb
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2015, 02:26:34 PM »

Set delta to 1. Ignition angel is depent on lambda.


What delta? Ignition angle is dependent on many things. And detazwbs is dependant on ignition angle efficency, not ignition angle.

Actually I don't understand your approach at all. Thank you anyway.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 07:42:13 AM by diegogpb » Logged
dgpb
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2015, 07:41:09 AM »

Any more opinions guys?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 07:45:24 AM by diegogpb » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2015, 10:27:46 AM »

FSTABGM is 1, usually.
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dgpb
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2015, 11:19:13 AM »

FSTABGM is 1, usually.

Believe it or not, I just realized that maybe he was refering to FBSTABGM



Don't really know why I thought it could be graeter than 1, maybe I dreamt it. Even like this, spec lambda'd be 0.6065... rich in excess i think.

But looking at FBSTABGM now... that means that if I'm @ 920ºC I'd end up with a leaner situation than what's in KFLBTS? (Of course, if LAMFA is even leaner)

What I pretend is to enrich if egt increases a lot, but running a "normal" lambda of let's say .82. For example:
Good petrol? -> L=.82
Bad petrol? -> risk of knock -> risk of timing retardation -> risk of high egts -> Enrich

That function from factory is very very very conservative. And, as I changed the axis of KFLBTS, KFDDLBTS axis changes too and I could interpolate old values till 150% load, but I don't really know the behavior of egts passed 150% load. I can't just paste a 210/225 one because they have different CRs, or even egt sensor. What I could do is extrapolate values at guess to reach 190% load. Not sure if this correlates to reality at all.

That said. What's sure is, the higher egts are, the more I want to enrich. Is it a medium good strategy to delete that horrible 0.5 and put FBSTABGM like:?
900 -> 1, Because 0, if I'm not wrong, would make LAMBTS stoichiometric and equal or leaner than LAMFA and LAMFA will specifie lambdas, not LAMBTS
920 -> 1.1
940 -> 1.2
1000 -> 1.4
This only can work if CALCULATED and not actual egt increases with timing retardation... Does it? (I'm gonna look for it in FR, but if any of you does arleady know it, please post it Smiley)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 12:12:38 PM by diegogpb » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2015, 11:26:53 AM »

Anything over 1 is insanity. The point of that table is to range from 0 to 1.... that is, to attenuate (never amplify) BTS based on modeled EGR.
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dgpb
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2015, 11:38:47 AM »

Anything over 1 is insanity. The point of that table is to range from 0 to 1.... that is, to attenuate (never amplify) BTS based on modeled EGR.

Nyet, beleive me when I say that I hate going against of you. You do know a world more than me, but in this situation I think you are wrong.

Looking at the LAMBTS block diagram from FR (First image in the OP):

KFLBTS->0.82
0.82-1=-0.18 (If LAMBTSZW were not 0, it would be even more negative)
-0.18*1.1=-0.198 (more negative)
-0.198+1=0.802 (Richer than KFLBTS)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 11:42:35 AM by diegogpb » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2015, 11:45:07 AM »

-0.18*1.1=-0.198 (more negative)

-0.18*1.0- = -0.18 -> 100% bts enrichment
-0.18*0.5 = -0.09 -> 50% bts enrichment
-0.18*0.0 = 0 ->0% bts enrichment
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dgpb
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2015, 11:53:39 AM »

-0.18*1.0- = -0.18 -> 100% bts enrichment
-0.18*0.5 = -0.09 -> 50% bts enrichment
-0.18*0.0 = 0 ->0% bts enrichment


FBSTABGM greater than 1 is not insanity then:
-0.18*1.1 = -0.198 -> 110% bts enrichment

Hexadecimal code is not limitting FBSTABGM to 1, cause it's h'80', there´s a world to h'FF'
The only thing that could prevent a greater than 1 output from FBSTABGM is something in the assembly... And I'm not in IDApro yet. Apparently, it may work ok and enrich more with high egt. Don't you think so?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 11:57:40 AM by diegogpb » Logged
dgpb
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2015, 12:57:18 PM »

Well, as I understand from FR, the input of FBSTABGM is tabgbts_w which is in fact tabgkrm_w or tabgm_w. And my automation knowledge/experience is not enough to understand the block diagrams involved on it, neither my german level... Can anyone confirm if tabgkrm_w or tabgm_w are dependent on timing retardation?
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nyet
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2015, 01:00:31 PM »

FBSTABGM greater than 1 is not insanity then:

Quote
(0.8204 -1 + (-0.2175) )*1.1 +1 = 0.56319

I would call that insanity.
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dgpb
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2015, 01:07:21 PM »

I would call that insanity.

First of all. Thank you for replying so fast and so many times.

Second: Yes, me too. But keep in mind that now KFDDLBTS is 0, so dlambts_w is 0 too

So it'd be: (0.8204 -1 + (0) )*1.1 +1 = 0.80244
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 01:09:40 PM by diegogpb » Logged
SB_GLI
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2015, 01:43:04 PM »

a lot of the stock 1.8t files have values > 1 in FBSTABGM.  Whether it be right, wrong or insane, I also use values > 1 when to enrich the mixture when EGTs are high.
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nyet
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2015, 01:44:20 PM »

a lot of the stock 1.8t files have values > 1 in FBSTABGM.  Whether it be right, wrong or insane, I also use values > 1 when to enrich the mixture when EGTs are high.

Interesting. I had no idea. I stand corrected.
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