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Author Topic: KFVPDKSD/E and WDKUGDN throttle tuning near wg cracking pressure  (Read 30201 times)
nyet
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First you need to find out whether plgrus_w is equal to pu_w or whether it's mapped from factory.
The RS4 K-box for example has plgrus_w equal to spring pressure, and then the entire boost control dances around that.

I find it a PITA to tune, so I hacked the binary to have plgrus_w = pu_w like it is done on the S4.

After that, you need to tune KFVPDKSD and KFVPDKSE to have values lower than PSPVDKUG (just a little lower is enough) in the areas that are below the spring boost of the turbos. Otherwise the ECU goes WOT when it shouldn't and you get massive throttle cut on part throttle and kangarooing.

Yes.
Basically it should be <0.95 if the axis is <1

For 2.7t M-box, KFVPDKSD/E are never below 0.96... what am I missing?

ETA:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9221.msg112547#msg112547
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 11:40:29 AM by nyet » Logged

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zillarob
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2015, 01:51:52 AM »

You prob spotted this already, but Ive been trying to get my head around this stuff lately so here is a pic.



I dont know wtf Im doing, lol, but this what it is looking like to me:

The white area is where the turbos will make the req pr all by themselves, so we need to control airflow with the tblade?

The gray area is where the turbos need help to meet the req pr, so open the tblade and feed them wgdc?

Tried a few different ways of changing that axis.
1st, multiply ori by a factor.
2nd, back 6psi out of the ori and insert the new wg cracking psi for each value.
3rd, starting at the original pr and ramping up through the new (in the pic).

The 1st was ok, the 2nd seemed a little better, but the 3rd pretty much felt like the wrong way.

Thinking the next go-round is going to be the 2nd method of changing that axis, and take a stab at making the white area look more like what (I think) f21s should do. Which will prob screw things up worse than I already have  Grin
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prj
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2015, 07:07:16 AM »

The white area is where the turbos will make the req pr all by themselves, so we need to control airflow with the tblade?

The gray area is where the turbos need help to meet the req pr, so open the tblade and feed them wgdc?

Yes.
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zillarob
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2015, 11:44:36 AM »

Thanks man!
Nice to hear I may be on the right track. Finally  Grin


Thinking about changing the rpm axis in kfvpdks instead of changing the values in the table.
Doing this always makes me nervous as I never know if anything else uses those axis and dont want my car going raging bull on a busload of schoolkids.

Something like this is what I am imagining will be closer to what my turbos do




I have also upped WDKUGDN a little as you mentioned earlier (I think up was the right direction anyway).
Car runs on a 4bar and I have a 3bar in the intake mani and logging to one of the rear 02s.
Thinking I will unplug the n75 and go drive around for an hr or so to get some data to fine tune these maps.

A pull or 2 should be good enough to get in the neghborhood on the PVDKS stuff, But I have a feeling WDKUGDN is going to be a bit more fun  Tongue

I think I am going to have to do that one the cave man way, lol
Order it by rpm in excel,
Add another column that = (charge psi / map)
Prune out the data at the WDKUGDN rpm points +/-100rpm or so,
Should be able to put this in an ecuxplot scatter and see whereabouts the (charge psi / map) is = ~1 (tblade is not a restriction).
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Palle
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2015, 12:19:36 PM »

I am having hard time getting this 100% myself as well.

Those axis values does not make any sence for PJk04s. Hense it is very hard to determine what factor i need to multiplie axis with to get my RS6turbos with 16 psi spring pressure and 13psi cracking pressure.
I followed Julex explanation, but it does not get 100% smooth.
I have tried many diff factors.
My WDKUGDN is perfect if that helps.
 
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nyet
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2015, 12:33:48 PM »

13psi cracking pressure.

13psi is a PR of 1.9.

I have no idea what I'm looking at in there in your maps.
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Palle
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2015, 12:53:45 PM »

That is rs4 551k ori maps.
Exactly my point. Those maps does not make sence as 551m maps do.
13psi - yes it is 1.9 pr.
I used that and calculated factor 1.9/0.984. This is the right way to do as i understand and still not perfect. Getting some kind of surge, hesitation. Very irritating.
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zillarob
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2015, 01:48:34 PM »

PRJ mentioned earlier (in this thread iirc) that the rs4 uses a different strategy in this area and he has to work mojo to convert it to the s4 mbox strategy.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4381.msg43866#msg43866
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 01:59:59 PM by zillarob » Logged
MIL_on
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2015, 06:14:02 AM »

The difference is only in CWPLGU:
CWPLGU = 0
for example used in RS4 and rarely in 1.8T Ecus (TT Quattro Sport): plgrus_w = Output of KFPLGU/B
vpssplg = pssol_w/plgrus_w. vpssplg is the axis for KFPVDKSE/D, so cracking pressure is ratio = 1

CWPLGU = 1
most 1.8T use this config: plgrus_w = pu_w
vpssplg = pssol/plgrus = pssol_w/pu_w. vpssplg is the axis for KFPVDKSE/D, so ambient pressure is ratio = 1

i also find it way more comfortable to switch it to 1.

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Palle
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 07:20:18 AM »

The difference is only in CWPLGU:
CWPLGU = 0
for example used in RS4 and rarely in 1.8T Ecus (TT Quattro Sport): plgrus_w = Output of KFPLGU/B
vpssplg = pssol_w/plgrus_w. vpssplg is the axis for KFPVDKSE/D, so cracking pressure is ratio = 1

CWPLGU = 1
most 1.8T use this config: plgrus_w = pu_w
vpssplg = pssol/plgrus = pssol_w/pu_w. vpssplg is the axis for KFPVDKSE/D, so ambient pressure is ratio = 1

i also find it way more comfortable to switch it to 1.




So I should switch CWPLGU = 1 and proceed with PR factor multiplication as Julex described in 551M box?

You wouldn`t have adress to CWPLGU in RS 551K box as i dont have it defined in my kp?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 08:41:53 AM by Mocke » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 10:17:49 AM »


So I should switch CWPLGU = 1 and proceed with PR factor multiplication as Julex described in 551M box?

You wouldn`t have adress to CWPLGU in RS 551K box as i dont have it defined in my kp?

Most of those type of codewords are compile time.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
prj
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2015, 03:39:13 PM »


So I should switch CWPLGU = 1 and proceed with PR factor multiplication as Julex described in 551M box?

You wouldn`t have adress to CWPLGU in RS 551K box as i dont have it defined in my kp?

Does not exist in RS4, it's hardcoded.
It's already fixed in your basefile.
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ddillenger
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2015, 04:07:17 PM »

Also, BEL files require a similar hack. I can post it if anyone needs it. Mine is a touch different then prj's, but both functional.
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2015, 04:36:46 PM »

Also, BEL files require a similar hack. I can post it if anyone needs it. Mine is a touch different then prj's, but both functional.

Please do DD.  I have a pair TM5+ turbos going on my allroad in the upcoming weeks and will need to sort this.
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zillarob
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2015, 06:54:05 PM »

Made some changes today and it felt like a huge jump in the right direction.
Might just be in my head, but seems like the wheels are reacting much more in line with what I am doing with my right foot.

I thought I was making too much psi at first, but then I realized that I just couldnt see req psi because it was directly under my map sensor line in visual logger.
Map is pretty much dead on req, but not sure if it is charge psi that should be following req. Will look at what vars I am logging and maybe change them up tonight.

Upped WDKUGDN just a little to allow for the 12psi gates. I just took a guess here in the areas that the f21s will make more than the k03s.

Changed both axis in in the KFVPDKS maps to something that seemed more appropriate.
The vpssplg axis I changed with an excel calculator contraption I made up to help visualize the changes and keep myself from chasing my tail.
The rpm axis was just a guess.
The values in KFVPDKSD were changed based on an n75 unplugged hammer down pull.
The values in KFVPDKSE are based on the new KFVPDKSD, and tried to mimic the differences between two in the ori 551m file. So ya, just a guess  Grin




Here is the ghetto calculator I used for the vpssplg axis. I used the 3rd method here.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 07:04:10 PM by zillarob » Logged
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