dwdufour
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« on: December 08, 2015, 10:44:27 PM »
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Exactly as the title states.
I'm trying to put a Passat cluster into my subaru powered Vanagon.
I haven't picked it up yet since I'm just in the planning stages. I'm trying to find a guide for the process. I understand that it will require some fiddling to get the fuel gauge to work properly, but I know that it can be done.
Looking for any and all help I can get.
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adam-
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2015, 01:52:06 AM »
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I'd start with sensory inputs. What sensors does the Passat have, and how do they relate to the Subaru? Is the Passat cluster CAN?
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adam-
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2015, 02:05:15 AM »
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Awesome, sounds good. For the record, if you Google "Tuning cluster Audi/VW" on Nefmoto (use Google, the Nef search sucks!), you'll find a good thread. You can basically tune the cluster to suit your needs. For example, buying a diesel cluster and adjusting the scaling maps for RPM to suit a petrol.
With that in mind, you could modify the scaling for the fuel gauge to suit your sender. What sender are you using? Subaru? Could you replace with a VW one?
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dwdufour
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2015, 10:32:23 AM »
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I'll be using the stock VW sender. Apparently, the Passat cluster is reverse. Shouldn't be too hard once I'm in it.
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TijnCU
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2015, 11:00:19 AM »
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I have an early Audi A4 cluster fitted, the first generation works with a "reversed" sender. Meaning that you can stick with your original vanagon fuel sender without modification. If it does read in the opposite direction, take out your sender and modify it with a bridge so the signal is reversed.
Pinout for cluster 1:
26-Pin Connector, Blue 1 - Open 2 - Signal for buzzer 3 - Terminal 15 4 - Terminal 15 5 - Open 6 - Terminal 61 7 - Parking brake/brake system malfunction 8 - ABS (input signal) 9 - Airbag (input signal) 10 - CAT 11 - Open 12 - Open 13 - Parking light, right 14 - Ignition switch, S-contact 15 - Chime signal 16 - Open 17 - Open 18 - Oil pressure 1.8 bar 19 - Terminal 58d 20 - Coolant level 21 - Turn signal, right 22 - Headlight high beams 23 - Speedometer Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) (checking → Chapter) 24 - Brake fluid 25 - Brake pads 26 - Parking light, left
26-Pin Connector, Yellow
1 - Terminal 58 2 - Terminal 58 3 - Engine RPM signal 4 - Air conditioner compressor 5 - Clock (output) 6 - Speed signal 1 7 - Speed signal 2 8 - Door contact (driver's door) 9 - Terminal 30 10 - Terminal 30 11 - Open 12 - Fuel tank warning 13 - Turn signal, left 14 - Open 15 - Open 16 - Seat belt buckle switch 17 - Open 18 - Terminal 31 19 - Terminal 31 20 - Diagnostic wire 21 - Open 22 - Open 23 - Open 24 - Open 25 - Sender for fuel gauge 26 - Engine coolant temperature sensor
20-Pin Connector, Black 1 - Fuel consumption signal 2 - Open 3 - Open 4 - Open 5 - Outside air temperature 6 - Selector lever display 7 - Open 8 - Open 9 - Coolant level 10 - Hydraulic pressure 11 - Trip computer - Reset 12 - Radio/Telephone - Clock 13 - Radio/Telephone - Data 14 - Trip computer (forward sequence) 15 - Radio/Telephone - Enable 16 - Rear lights/headlight low beams 17 - Open 18 - Trip computer (reverse sequence) 19 - Brake lights 20 - Open
4-Pin Connector, Black 1 - Oil temperature sensor
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adam-
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2015, 11:33:02 AM »
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Or do that. Or modify the dump. Same concept.
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dwdufour
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2015, 11:41:08 AM »
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I have an early Audi A4 cluster fitted, the first generation works with a "reversed" sender. Meaning that you can stick with your original vanagon fuel sender without modification. If it does read in the opposite direction, take out your sender and modify it with a bridge so the signal is reversed.
Pinout for cluster 1:
26-Pin Connector, Blue 1 - Open 2 - Signal for buzzer 3 - Terminal 15 4 - Terminal 15 5 - Open 6 - Terminal 61 7 - Parking brake/brake system malfunction 8 - ABS (input signal) 9 - Airbag (input signal) 10 - CAT 11 - Open 12 - Open 13 - Parking light, right 14 - Ignition switch, S-contact 15 - Chime signal 16 - Open 17 - Open 18 - Oil pressure 1.8 bar 19 - Terminal 58d 20 - Coolant level 21 - Turn signal, right 22 - Headlight high beams 23 - Speedometer Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) (checking → Chapter) 24 - Brake fluid 25 - Brake pads 26 - Parking light, left
26-Pin Connector, Yellow
1 - Terminal 58 2 - Terminal 58 3 - Engine RPM signal 4 - Air conditioner compressor 5 - Clock (output) 6 - Speed signal 1 7 - Speed signal 2 8 - Door contact (driver's door) 9 - Terminal 30 10 - Terminal 30 11 - Open 12 - Fuel tank warning 13 - Turn signal, left 14 - Open 15 - Open 16 - Seat belt buckle switch 17 - Open 18 - Terminal 31 19 - Terminal 31 20 - Diagnostic wire 21 - Open 22 - Open 23 - Open 24 - Open 25 - Sender for fuel gauge 26 - Engine coolant temperature sensor
20-Pin Connector, Black 1 - Fuel consumption signal 2 - Open 3 - Open 4 - Open 5 - Outside air temperature 6 - Selector lever display 7 - Open 8 - Open 9 - Coolant level 10 - Hydraulic pressure 11 - Trip computer - Reset 12 - Radio/Telephone - Clock 13 - Radio/Telephone - Data 14 - Trip computer (forward sequence) 15 - Radio/Telephone - Enable 16 - Rear lights/headlight low beams 17 - Open 18 - Trip computer (reverse sequence) 19 - Brake lights 20 - Open
4-Pin Connector, Black 1 - Oil temperature sensor
My biggest concern is that I will have a subaru ECU. I'm assuming I will have to graft a K line connection, which is fine, but is there anything I'm not seeing? Also, will this cable do the trick? http://www.amazon.com/VIMVIP-VAG-COM-409-1-Scanner-Volkswagen/dp/B00K6498D0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449686121&sr=8-1&keywords=kkl+cable
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TijnCU
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2015, 11:56:05 AM »
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This instrument cluster runs of a seperate tacho signal, coolant signal, speedo signal, etc. Even the MFA type clusters dont use the CAN line for any critical info, they all have signals coming from the engine or the ecu. You can modify your signals, or cluster dump accordingly, or just put some extra sensors if you like.
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dwdufour
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2015, 12:47:43 PM »
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So how do I access the cluster? Through OBD or some other port?
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TijnCU
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2015, 12:59:09 PM »
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You can acces the cluster through the k-line, but you can't rework the eprom with vagcom. You can search this forum: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?board=43.0 to see if you can find the eprom of your dashboard (if you know what type you want) and take a look inside what to expect. To read the cluster eprom, I think you can manage with a VagCommander or VagTacho cable. I dont have any experience with anything other than recoding clusters, so you need to find the info in the forums or ask someone that is willing to guide you in there
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adam-
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2015, 01:04:13 PM »
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This is gonna sound patronising, but it's not.
So, you've got this old van you've put a 2009 Subaru engine in, right? And you're going to through a B5 cluster in it? How are you going to get RPM, speedo, oil pressure, ABS, airbag, TC, screen washer lights to work?
I think the fuel gauge is the least of your worries at this stage.
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TijnCU
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2015, 01:13:05 PM »
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My first thought was to source a 2009 suby cluster, wouldnt that be so much cooler? (and easier) But I guess it should be possible to use all signals from the new engine when you tap some sensors. Maybe adjust the eprom of the cluster to adjust, but I dont have any experience with that The cluster itself is very basic, its more or less the same principle as your vanagon cluster but then with some extra wires and no mechanical speedo. I've seen stock engined vanagons running this cluster just by using the few switches and sensors that are on the block, and adding an external signal for the speedo (with an adapter on the original speedo cable). I've converted my dashboard to this cluster, so I know exactly what you need to do when it comes to wiring. There are basically 4 wires coming from my engine, which are oil pressure switch, speedo (linked to gearbox in my case), tach rpm signal, coolant temp. The additional wiring are for the cruise control and dont apply to your case. All other wiring is already present in your current vanagon wiring (lights, handbrake, fuel, indicators etc.) Adam: All luxury sensors like brake pad lining, ABS, EPS, Airbag etc etc dont apply on this car, so you could basically remove the light bulbs from the cluster
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 01:22:34 PM by TijnCU »
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dwdufour
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2015, 01:35:03 PM »
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From an aesthetic standpoint, the B5 cluster looks and fits great (A4 as well). It also has a better information interface than the shitty stock Vanagon unit. I'm also switching from KPH to MPH.
My concern about speed is that I'm still using the stock Syncro transmission, so I may have to set up a hall sensor or something, but there are numerous ways to fix that issue. Tach should be fine. It will be working with the stock unit. Oil pressure will require a a sensor, but again, fairly straight forward.
I'm hoping to add cruise and a new instrument cluster could help with that as well.
My worry is that I've only seen this done with the 1.8t swaps. So, VW engine to VW cluster. I am hoping I can communicate through the Subaru OBD to the VW cluster.
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dwdufour
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2015, 02:13:10 PM »
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My first thought was to source a 2009 suby cluster, wouldnt that be so much cooler? (and easier) But I guess it should be possible to use all signals from the new engine when you tap some sensors. Maybe adjust the eprom of the cluster to adjust, but I dont have any experience with that The cluster itself is very basic, its more or less the same principle as your vanagon cluster but then with some extra wires and no mechanical speedo. I've seen stock engined vanagons running this cluster just by using the few switches and sensors that are on the block, and adding an external signal for the speedo (with an adapter on the original speedo cable). I've converted my dashboard to this cluster, so I know exactly what you need to do when it comes to wiring. There are basically 4 wires coming from my engine, which are oil pressure switch, speedo (linked to gearbox in my case), tach rpm signal, coolant temp. The additional wiring are for the cruise control and dont apply to your case. All other wiring is already present in your current vanagon wiring (lights, handbrake, fuel, indicators etc.) Adam: All luxury sensors like brake pad lining, ABS, EPS, Airbag etc etc dont apply on this car, so you could basically remove the light bulbs from the cluster None of your photos are live in that thread. Can I find them somewhere else? Do you have photos of your cluster?
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