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rob.mwpropane
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« on: September 17, 2011, 05:25:20 AM »
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So I've been doing a TON of reading and I'm trying to figure something out. I do not own Meastro tuning from Eurodyne, but I have screen shots of where they just pick which MAF sensor is that they use instead of tuning MLHFM. Would it be possible to get a MAF sensor and copy MLHFM from that said car? Say I wanted to install a Hitachi S4 MAF sensor on my car, could I copy MLHFM from that particular S4 and think it would get me in the ballpark? There are 3 hurdles that I see with this idea:
1- As stated in the S4 wiki there are quite a few different MAF part # for even the same year car, so the copied MLHFM would have to be taken from said bin.file that has been calibrated for said MAF sensor. (not really a hurdle, as I believe looking for said bin with said MAF part # would be much easier than starting from scratch)
2- I understand that the intake track, velocity, etc could, and most likely would be different from car to car. At this, we would have to fine tune KFKHFM for any differences.(This would have to be done anyway as stated in the wiki)
3- This would require MAF sensor and housing both from different car, so splicing wires comes into play. My only experience is changing MAF sensors, not swapping them. With that being said, I"ve never looked at the wiring in detail. Im unsure that all MAF sensors use the same amount of wires. If they have more or less, then it would kind of defeat the purpose.
I'm open to ideas, maybe I'm overlooking something?
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« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 05:27:40 AM by rob.mwpropane »
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 05:39:15 AM »
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If this all holds true, then we could set up something where you can go and choose your part # MAF, and with it you will find it's particular MLHFM map to copy into your file. The hardest part of swapping MAF sensors would be building the intake track to compensate, splicing in MAF. Almost plug and play, again, we would have to fine tune with KFKHFM for differences. I'd be totally willing to try this out on my car if someone has a used MAF sensor, preferably from an S4/TT 225 variant they want to sell (that's in good working order!).
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« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 07:33:11 AM by rob.mwpropane »
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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Rick
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 10:54:21 AM »
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Yes, you can do as you say. I have changed from a Hitachi to Bosch MAF on my own car for example.
Rick
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 10:55:19 AM »
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There are only two MAFs used in the S4, one hitachi and one bosch. By and large, if you aren't going to use a stock sensor, you had better damn well have the datasheet for whatever MAF you intend to use....
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2011, 05:57:49 PM »
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Yes, you can do as you say. I have changed from a Hitachi to Bosch MAF on my own car for example.
Rick
Rick, did you by chance copy the MLHFM map over as I say, or did you just tune it until it was right? If you just tuned, did you compare your MLHFM map to that of a car using the Bosch sensor? Thanks. |
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2011, 07:40:15 PM »
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There are only two MAFs used in the S4, one hitachi and one bosch. By and large, if you aren't going to use a stock sensor, you had better damn well have the datasheet for whatever MAF you intend to use....
Well that's good advice, I'm trying to stick with S4 sensor because you all have more info/experience with those. Do you think it would be easier to just scale the stock sensor inside different housing nyet? The way I understood meastro was they swap out the whole sensor. I could very we'll be wrong about that. Thanks nyet for your reply. I'm really interested in figuring out MAF as it seems from everything I've read, if you can get that part right, tuning is much easier than if its wrong. If I did swap out MLHFM from an S4 into an A4, would I also have to change the minimum/maximum values? |
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2011, 06:40:07 PM »
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MLHFM is for a particular sensor, and KFKHFM is to correct the MAF reading for the intake tract.
I believe that MLHFM should be portable between tunes as long as the MAF is scaled correctly and not underscaled.
KFKHFM would be much less portable because it is directly tuned for a particular intake tract.
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 08:03:21 PM »
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MLHFM is for a particular sensor, and KFKHFM is to correct the MAF reading for the intake tract.
I believe that MLHFM should be portable between tunes as long as the MAF is scaled correctly and not underscaled.
KFKHFM would be much less portable because it is directly tuned for a particular intake tract.
Right, that's what I thought. I know you big boys play with the S4's and have the Bosch/Hitachi sensors. It seems with 1.8t we have the same mlhfm for same size maf housing, regardless of car. It doesn't seem to matter which way the engine is mounted either. Kfkhfm, as you said, since it's tuned for the intake tract, are ALL different. I assume that the same mlhfm map will go with Bosch, as will one go with Hitachi sensors. I need some more time to look at a couple more bin.files to compare. I didn't have a whole lot of time tonight. |
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 05:21:45 AM »
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It seems from what I'm reading Audi uses the same maf sensor for the a4, tt, vr6. The housings are different, hence the ecu's different transfer function (mlhfm). This information was gathered from reading various forums, however NONE of that is close to being fact. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Its hard to clarify because part numbers refer to the housing, not the actual sensor. Can anyone post part # on their actual sensor w/yr, make, model. I will try to dig mine out later today. I believe Bosch is the manufacturer of all 1.8, so it would be good to get the Bosch s4 maf senso part number as well. Thanks to all responses.
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2011, 02:45:05 PM »
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Here's a GREAT picture a member of audizine just sent to me for comparison, notice the difference from appearence on the 225 MAF end? Other than that, the last letter letter of the part number is different.....which could mean a world of difference, lol
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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Rick
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 10:52:11 AM »
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I'm trying to figure out what you want to do, then I can advise better.
MLHFM is completely portable, and as Nyet says, you should match this to the sensor you have. I am against scaling anything. We have a good choice of sensors available with well defined transfer functions and the RS4 supports over 600hp so you shouldn't have a problem.
Once you have transferred the correct MLHFM, tune KFKHFM until your trims are correct.
Rick
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nyet
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 11:55:18 AM »
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RS4 supports over 600hp
I am still a bit confused on how ME7 handles load >191... got any advice/insight? There are also a few MAF maximums in ME7 that I am concerned about. |
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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rob.mwpropane
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 02:14:30 PM »
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I'm trying to figure out what you want to do, then I can advise better.
MLHFM is completely portable, and as Nyet says, you should match this to the sensor you have. I am against scaling anything. We have a good choice of sensors available with well defined transfer functions and the RS4 supports over 600hp so you shouldn't have a problem.
Once you have transferred the correct MLHFM, tune KFKHFM until your trims are correct.
Rick
I guess what I'm trying to do is find out how many different sensors there actually are. I just can't imagine that Bosch made 50 different sensors for 50 different cars. I have read of many people just using sensor "x" from a different car, putting it in their housing in their car, and everything is good. No bad logs of stft. I agree that scaling is not the first choice, however I have read that there is a mathematical formula to scale. I definitely don't have it. Is it plausible to use my sensor inside of housing "x" and mlhfm from car "x" bin? Hey, I'm just learning, so I hope this doesn't come off as a stupid train of thought. Thanks for the insight, and fwiw, I have learned a great deal from you folks. |
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This has nothing to do with cars but you can see my glorifying job at, www.MWPropane.com |
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nyet
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 02:21:30 PM »
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I agree that scaling is not the first choice
If you are putting a sensor in a different size housing, you have no choice. You must scale however I have read that there is a mathematical formula to scale. I definitely don't have it.
Typically, it is a constant % increase across the range of the stock transfer function. Math would indicate it should be proportional to change in cross-sectional area, but I have had varying results with that. Is it plausible to use my sensor inside of housing "x" and mlhfm from car "x" bin?
That is how almost all B5 S4 2.7t MAF modifications are done. I assume you have already read the MAF entry in the s4wiki? |
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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