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Author Topic: ME7.9.10 - Understanding the torque model  (Read 100150 times)
370rx
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« Reply #315 on: November 20, 2018, 11:40:05 PM »

I'm very interested in your work, I'm also trying to deal with this ECU. I really want to start my engine on 100% software abarth esseesse, and work in this direction. I have a work revlimit, I can share it with you for study. There's work on detonation areas. Write me a personal message your email address, I will send you this firmware and Excel file with the changes found at the addresses and their names cards.

Without intervening into the knock detection calibration, I logged some variables to see what's going on inside the knock detection routines. A sample attached below. I left only the most interesting things in the graph, the rest you have to trust me on, they would haze the picture or are beyond the magnified area.

It shows what happens more or less typically when I looked at the other parts of the logs. The green line that goes up to 1 at 123.5 s. indicates the rpm ramp up dynamic mode for knock detection is on (no wonder, the rpm gradient goes up to 4000 rpm/s). Dynamic mode = knock detection is dampened by a factor of ~1.2. 2 on the green line would mean load ramp up, but here it does not happen (though the load ramps up too). The violet line going up to 15 means that the frequency setting changes on all four cylinders going through the calibrated rpm thresholds and this also temporarily triggers dynamic mode. The rpm climb you see from 123.5 to 127.5 is a rolling quick pull in the 2nd gear. The knock retard on one cylinder (others were 0) kicks in when the load touches on the target one (EDIT: the retard kicks in already when the load starts to climb, initially it goes up at a rate of 180%/s, yet no dynamic mode). And this is on E70!

What bothers me is ngas, the rpm gradient. the blue thing. It says somewhere in the FRs that it is measured every 10ms (so defo more than one time per engine rotation at these rpms), nevertheless, I do not see why it's spiked and why a rather smooth rpm line gives such gradient readings. I can also see that the n/a setting I quoted above would turn the dynamic mode on much more in the particular area.

Seriously curios now if that's the way it's supposed to be...?

EDIT 2: I also looked at some other bins from the  family. The n/a version has also the load thresholds for dynamic mode more or less at the half level of my ECU = goes into dynamic mode more likely. One of the SS bins though has the rpm threshold slightly lower, while the load thresholds are seriously higher (around twice as much in the lower rpm range).
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370rx
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« Reply #316 on: November 21, 2018, 12:31:27 AM »

I am thinking to buy on ebay the body module of the BSI computer and to start with it EBU esseesse with the switched-off immo if it turns out, it is possible to copy eeprom BSI esseesse to the native BSI and it has to work.


Without intervening into the knock detection calibration, I logged some variables to see what's going on inside the knock detection routines. A sample attached below. I left only the most interesting things in the graph, the rest you have to trust me on, they would haze the picture or are beyond the magnified area.

It shows what happens more or less typically when I looked at the other parts of the logs. The green line that goes up to 1 at 123.5 s. indicates the rpm ramp up dynamic mode for knock detection is on (no wonder, the rpm gradient goes up to 4000 rpm/s). Dynamic mode = knock detection is dampened by a factor of ~1.2. 2 on the green line would mean load ramp up, but here it does not happen (though the load ramps up too). The violet line going up to 15 means that the frequency setting changes on all four cylinders going through the calibrated rpm thresholds and this also temporarily triggers dynamic mode. The rpm climb you see from 123.5 to 127.5 is a rolling quick pull in the 2nd gear. The knock retard on one cylinder (others were 0) kicks in when the load touches on the target one (EDIT: the retard kicks in already when the load starts to climb, initially it goes up at a rate of 180%/s, yet no dynamic mode). And this is on E70!

What bothers me is ngas, the rpm gradient. the blue thing. It says somewhere in the FRs that it is measured every 10ms (so defo more than one time per engine rotation at these rpms), nevertheless, I do not see why it's spiked and why a rather smooth rpm line gives such gradient readings. I can also see that the n/a setting I quoted above would turn the dynamic mode on much more in the particular area.

Seriously curios now if that's the way it's supposed to be...?

EDIT 2: I also looked at some other bins from the  family. The n/a version has also the load thresholds for dynamic mode more or less at the half level of my ECU = goes into dynamic mode more likely. One of the SS bins though has the rpm threshold slightly lower, while the load thresholds are seriously higher (around twice as much in the lower rpm range).
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woj
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« Reply #317 on: November 28, 2018, 02:05:43 PM »

I think I have figured out my cold start / cranking issues for Ethanol, now I am only annoyed that I was one day too late with this - the proper frost we had here for the last two days is gone and we are back to 0*C temperatures.

It seems my biggest mistake / pitfall was that I considerably raised the target idle RPM at colder ranges, by around +150 at 0 degrees, 250 at -10, etc. Apart from getting the start up fuel and decay rate right it seemed all the time that the throttle chokes the process. Goes like - engine kicks in, gets slightly choky rpms at some level below 1000, some time elapses and it springs to life at the target rpm (which was ~1200). This hesitation drove me nuts, so I turned to FR for Alfa ME7.3 and it became less of a mystery. Without requoting the whole document - the choke period is the apparently the TVLLRSTE delay (2 seconds) from the end of start (reaching 800 rpm) until the idle PID kicks in. It can also kick in quicker, that happens right after the rpms reach the target idle rpm for the first time, but for me this never happened, hence this 2 second choke. And it never happened because I raised the targets. Now, I know that the maps should be clever enough to deal with this and the drag torque map should set the load at the right level, but clearly there must be something about Ethanol that makes it not so. So I tried (a) dropping the target idle speed slightly (but still higher than factory), and (b) raising DMDNSM - the after crank torque offset. The result is this:

https://youtu.be/Cligw9REpz4

So far a singular experiment, but it all makes sense and it seems the ECU has finally started to react to my wishes. Somewhere in the process I also played with the starting ignition both ways, but that seemed to do more bad than good.
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370rx
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« Reply #318 on: November 28, 2018, 10:28:28 PM »

small victory
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370rx
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« Reply #319 on: November 28, 2018, 10:34:04 PM »

I also have a problem like yours on LPG. if you increase the TVLLRSTE time by more than 2 seconds for 30 seconds?


I think I have figured out my cold start / cranking issues for Ethanol, now I am only annoyed that I was one day too late with this - the proper frost we had here for the last two days is gone and we are back to 0*C temperatures.

It seems my biggest mistake / pitfall was that I considerably raised the target idle RPM at colder ranges, by around +150 at 0 degrees, 250 at -10, etc. Apart from getting the start up fuel and decay rate right it seemed all the time that the throttle chokes the process. Goes like - engine kicks in, gets slightly choky rpms at some level below 1000, some time elapses and it springs to life at the target rpm (which was ~1200). This hesitation drove me nuts, so I turned to FR for Alfa ME7.3 and it became less of a mystery. Without requoting the whole document - the choke period is the apparently the TVLLRSTE delay (2 seconds) from the end of start (reaching 800 rpm) until the idle PID kicks in. It can also kick in quicker, that happens right after the rpms reach the target idle rpm for the first time, but for me this never happened, hence this 2 second choke. And it never happened because I raised the targets. Now, I know that the maps should be clever enough to deal with this and the drag torque map should set the load at the right level, but clearly there must be something about Ethanol that makes it not so. So I tried (a) dropping the target idle speed slightly (but still higher than factory), and (b) raising DMDNSM - the after crank torque offset. The result is this:

https://youtu.be/Cligw9REpz4

So far a singular experiment, but it all makes sense and it seems the ECU has finally started to react to my wishes. Somewhere in the process I also played with the starting ignition both ways, but that seemed to do more bad than good.
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woj
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« Reply #320 on: November 29, 2018, 01:01:00 AM »

I also have a problem like yours on LPG. if you increase the TVLLRSTE time by more than 2 seconds for 30 seconds?

I always thought that on aftermarket LPG add-ons you are supposed to start the engine on gasoline nevertheless, but hey, I know total shit about LPG, maybe this changed. If you increase the said parameter to 30 seconds you won't get PID control for idle for half a minute unless your start rpms hit the target ones, most certainly not what you want.

I just had another clean start at 1*C, even cleaner I'd say and this one after much longer cold soak than the previous one (now 13 hours, previous one 7), also have a video of it, but it turned out totally dark, so I spare you this one.
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woj
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« Reply #321 on: December 07, 2018, 02:05:25 AM »

Any of you experienced Italian / ME7.9.10 users ever experienced immo system / body module issues under (heavy) KWP2000 CAN traffic?

Last Sunday I got the code light on the dash AFTER I started the engine and drove off, the code light came on very shortly after I turned on my logger. This was intermittent, was all fine on the next key cycle, the body ECU registered U0426 (minicrypt) and B1035 (body module damaged). Interestingly, the latter one was marked present when I was checking them later, the former intermittent.

This tells me I might have electrical issues in the car (Googling so far tells me so, not uncommon to have moisture problems in the engine fuse box area with similar symptoms), but yesterday I also got some random code light flashes when I was playing with the new version of MES on all modules in the car, so I am now suspecting this was/is CAN bus related.
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370rx
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« Reply #322 on: December 07, 2018, 03:28:08 AM »

I had a similar case when I was testing different diagnostic programs. Is the battery voltage normal?
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woj
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« Reply #323 on: December 07, 2018, 03:58:49 AM »

Yes it was normal when I checked it (solid 14V without and with considerable load - fan on 4 and long beam). The DTC recorded 14.4V when it was registered. Also, it was a very wet day and I drove in rain for 1 hour prior to the problem occuring.

But that's a good point, I also wondered about the state of the alternator. The car is 10 years old now, closing 150kkm and it is probably time to expect charging problems to start occurring. (The battery is 3.5 years old, the previous one lasted the remaining 6.5 - died spectacularly in 1 minute one summer morning). I'd even consider changing the alternator pre-emptively, but the weather would not allow me now. 
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370rx
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« Reply #324 on: December 08, 2018, 01:51:35 AM »

Hi, I am studying the abarth esseesse firmware where the load axes are made to 240RL but can't find the load x axis for kflbtsl, KFLBTS, KFFDLBTS cards. In DAMOS MiTo, the x-axis starts with A0961, but in abarth 180cv on many versions I can't find it. Maybe someone already found for these cards, the x-axis?
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woj
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« Reply #325 on: December 08, 2018, 11:29:12 AM »

On the esseesse bin I posted some time ago here (I will not re-post it, though the server disk space is not mine, I still care for it, please find it), marked P662_604, the LBTS module load axis is at 0xA5D20, and the RPM axis is at 0xA0BFE. So indeed they are not close to each other.
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370rx
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« Reply #326 on: December 08, 2018, 11:36:03 PM »


thank you, very helped! now I have increased the boost to 1.55 and for the ignition angle in the KFZW card I want to skip the line with 40% load and do as Abart 60%, this will give me another free line to add 220% load and with 3000 rpm lower the ignition angle by 2-3 degrees. the next job is to change the axes of the lbts module and add fuel (you will need to check the broadband sensor lambda) in a load of 220% if required
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370rx
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« Reply #327 on: December 09, 2018, 12:31:06 AM »

The X-axis for lbts 662_604 at the address you specified A5D20 wrong, maybe there a mistake?
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woj
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« Reply #328 on: December 09, 2018, 02:56:51 AM »

No, it's correct, look at the hex, just before you have 0C00 - Dec 12 - the size of the axis. Then 12 increasing words. The address is ok, but I think you defined as byte.
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370rx
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« Reply #329 on: December 09, 2018, 04:33:39 AM »

The complexity of the translation of Google, I guess what you, but I can not fix. Tell me what I did wrong?
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