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Author Topic: DSG dq250 TDI using for drag racing and need clutch apply pressure increased  (Read 962 times)
smartymotosports
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I know there's some aces here when it comes to DSG transmissions I have a 2012 Audi A3 8p 2.0 tdi with a DSG250 gt2260 turbo with custom piping & fully deleted emissions S&S 100% oversized injectors Cp3 fuel pump conversion 4 Bar Map G-Max intercooler Snows Methanol injection Rawtek Exhaust Hooser 10.5" wide race slicks car makes about 350hp, I use the car for street drag racing 1/8 mile I have a DSG  stage 3 tune and was looking someone that could look at it and make some adjustments to it for me? like increasing the clutch pressure and lowering the reaction time and anything else you could think of for drag racing. It's currently a stage 3 with 20000 miles, has 13.5 bar and clutch is starting to slip. please let me know $$ and I can email the file to you   Thanks Martin
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GolfSportWagen
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FYI - The DQ250 has a torque rating of 250 ft/lbs. While it has some designed in reserve capacity there are limits to how much torque you can reliably transmit thru it. Typically after a stage 3 tune you need to consider upgraded clutch discs and drums to handle increased torque and reduce excessive clutch wear. There is a point of diminishing returns with just increasing the clutch pressure. The better disc/drum upgrades add one more clutch disc to both drums which by itself increases the torque capacity. In addition you'll need to be concerned about powertrain shock loads as you reduce clutch slippage for maximum acceleration.
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smartymotosports
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 My plan is to replace the disk and plates but from what I here is if you go with the extra disks you must use a thinner end plate and when you increase the pressure you will warp the thinner endplate and cause slip, so I was told to Use higher pressure with the stage 2 clutch plates and factory end plates. I tried to open the file in winols but was having problem finding the proper maps.
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smartymotosports
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Maybe some one can tell me where to change the clutch pressures to obtain 17bar
Thanks
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 12:05:28 PM by smartymotosports » Logged
ship
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Here's a copy of the bin file. maybe some one can tell me why it's not lining up in WinOls.
Thanks

hello
do you have original file?
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smartymotosports
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No I don't maybe someone can upload it please
02E300057A GSG DSG AG6 511 9334
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 04:27:46 AM by smartymotosports » Logged
prj
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FYI - The DQ250 has a torque rating of 250 ft/lbs. While it has some designed in reserve capacity there are limits to how much torque you can reliably transmit thru it. Typically after a stage 3 tune you need to consider upgraded clutch discs and drums to handle increased torque and reduce excessive clutch wear. There is a point of diminishing returns with just increasing the clutch pressure. The better disc/drum upgrades add one more clutch disc to both drums which by itself increases the torque capacity. In addition you'll need to be concerned about powertrain shock loads as you reduce clutch slippage for maximum acceleration.

It is clear by this post that this guy hasn't even seen a such transmission!
Disregard what is written there 100% misinformation.

OP:
The gearbox will do 600nm. You can do this on the stock clutch just fine.
After that you will start snapping the input shaft, especially coupled with launch control.
There is zero point to replace clutches on these transmissions, as they are not the weak link! The only people who do that are those who can't tune them.

Your problem is most likely also the engine software where the torque is incorrect.

That said, your post is completely useless.
There is not a single file or log. Nothing to do here.

As you seem to be someone who only knows how to swap parts and has zero idea on anything software related, it is probably much simpler for you to just fit a DQ500 from a transporter.
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GolfSportWagen
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It is clear by this post that this guy hasn't even seen a such transmission!
Disregard what is written there 100% misinformation.

OP:
The gearbox will do 600nm. You can do this on the stock clutch just fine.
After that you will start snapping the input shaft, especially coupled with launch control.
There is zero point to replace clutches on these transmissions, as they are not the weak link! The only people who do that are those who can't tune them.

Your problem is most likely also the engine software where the torque is incorrect.

That said, your post is completely useless.
There is not a single file or log. Nothing to do here.

As you seem to be someone who only knows how to swap parts and has zero idea on anything software related, it is probably much simpler for you to just fit a DQ500 from a transporter.

No disrespect but you have no idea what you are talking about on this matter. The only thing that you got correct is the DQ500 is more suitable for drag racing. You should stick to tuning because you have demonstrated time and again that you lack technical expertise in engine and driveline design/operation as demonstrated in other threads here. Just because you think you know doesn't mean that you actually do know. What I posted is correct for those interested in factual info. Use it as you desire.

To be specific 250 ft/lb. torque capacity = 340 Nm - the RATED maximum sustained operating torque capacity for the DQ250 not the CRITICAL torque limit of the trans. 250 ft/lbs. is not the failure point for the trans it's the sustained designed full load operating capacity. The primary limiting factor is the clutch torque capacity and OE clutch pressure. Even with increased clutch pressure the clutch torque capacity is lower than the trans physical capacity - as it should be by design. You want the clutch to wear not the trans to self-destruct. Insufficient clutch surface area is why the OE clutches wear prematurely even with increased pressure in high torque engine applications.

Clutch torque capacity is a function of contact area, disc diameter, number of discs and applied pressure. THAT is why an additional clutch disc is added for high torque applications. The upgraded clutch disc/drum/input shaft assembly which is of superior metallurgy to the OE components will more reliably handle increased torque - because they are properly designed for increased torque capacity above the OE component limitations. Adding clutch discs for higher torque applications is standard auto industry practice used by auto makers as it's the proper engineering approach for increased torque capacity.

Drag racing shock loads can be extremely destructive on OE driveline components designed to last 100,000+ street miles not designed for drag race shock loads. If you're serious about the racing then the DQ500 would be a better choice. For performance street applications an upgraded DQ250 should be fine as long as you're not running drag slicks.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 06:07:06 PM by GolfSportWagen » Logged
prj
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No disrespect but you have no idea what you are talking about on this matter. The only thing that you got correct is the DQ500 is more suitable for drag racing. You should stick to tuning because you have demonstrated time and again that you lack technical expertise in engine and driveline design/operation as demonstrated in other threads here. Just because you think you know doesn't mean that you actually do know. What I posted is correct for those interested in factual info. Use it as you desire.

To be specific 250 ft/lb. torque capacity = 340 Nm - the RATED maximum sustained operating torque capacity for the DQ250 not the CRITICAL torque limit of the trans. 250 ft/lbs. is not the failure point for the trans it's the sustained designed full load operating capacity. The primary limiting factor is the clutch torque capacity and OE clutch pressure. Even with increased clutch pressure the clutch torque capacity is lower than the trans physical capacity - as it should be by design. You want the clutch to wear not the trans to self-destruct. Insufficient clutch surface area is why the OE clutches wear prematurely even with increased pressure in high torque engine applications.

Clutch torque capacity is a function of contact area, disc diameter, number of discs and applied pressure. THAT is why an additional clutch disc is added for high torque applications. The upgraded clutch disc/drum/input shaft assembly which is of superior metallurgy to the OE components will more reliably handle increased torque - because they are properly designed for increased torque capacity above the OE component limitations. Adding clutch discs for higher torque applications is standard auto industry practice used by auto makers as it's the proper engineering approach for increased torque capacity.

Drag racing shock loads can be extremely destructive on OE driveline components designed to last 100,000+ street miles not designed for drag race shock loads. If you're serious about the racing then the DQ500 would be a better choice. For performance street applications an upgraded DQ250 should be fine as long as you're not running drag slicks.

Keep yapping you troll. You don't even know the "rated" limit on the trans Cheesy Nope, 340nm is not it. There has been even a VW Golf with 350Nm and up using this transmission from Mk5 to Mk7.
No, clutch upgrade is not needed on DQ250, ever. Again, only people who can't tune do that, which is why almost everyone stopped doing it in 2014 or so, when most people figured out how to make the trans hit 20 bar. There is nothing reliable after 600nm (which the stock clutch is fine for with 0 issues). You will snap the input shaft in half and/or strip the gears inside the box. End of story. Waste of time. As said before, the OEM clutch is not the weak link - but since you know nothing about the design of the transmission it is not in your capability to understand that.
You have never even seen the inside of such trans, never mind tuned one or taken one to it's limits. You can write really long paragraphs of text though. All of which is just misinformation/trolling.

In fact the only reason you registered on this forum is to troll, as you know nothing about tuning. I dare say, you know nothing about anything automotive apart from regurgitating shit you read on some forum, and your experience with the topics discussed on this forum is exactly ZEEEEROOOO.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 02:31:02 AM by prj » Logged
GolfSportWagen
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Prj should stick to tuning as he doesn't have a clue about powertrain design and development.
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vwmaniac
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Prj is right, plenty of r32 turbo guys still running dq250s with success. Also i have a dq250 with stock tune behind a tuned 3.6 with zero issues.
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IamwhoIam
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Prj should stick to tuning as he doesn't have a clue about powertrain design and development.

Mr troll, there are DQ250s fitted to 2.0 TDI vehicles that produce 400Nm straight out of your factory, so you should take your "ratings" and stick them where the sun don't shine IMHO. now GTFOH.
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I have no logs because I have a boost gauge (makes things easier)
Blazius
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Gonna have to agree, just in the Golf Mk6 the GTD/R runs with 350Nm from factory and in MK7 its bumped to 380Nm still with DQ250. Either VAG/bosch is running these trans at their max capacity with no reserve, I am sure they aren't that dumb or these can handle a bit more power than they state in their nomenclature and SSP's.
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