vwmaniac
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« Reply #315 on: July 09, 2023, 10:02:28 AM »
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Could anyone point me to an address, that would disable LC ? Not enable, but but disable. Brake pressure requirement, engine temp or any other map that would eventually disable LC in this Cxx file  Thanks. do the opposite of what i wrote above and it wont work at all |
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MirXas
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« Reply #316 on: July 10, 2023, 11:31:58 AM »
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Yes, i understand, but i cant find anything in these old Cxx files  |
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vwmaniac
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« Reply #317 on: July 14, 2023, 06:23:38 AM »
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i actually learned this from a cxx file set that was posted in another forum, ill find the files and post them here.
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stack
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« Reply #318 on: July 27, 2023, 03:27:46 AM »
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Could anyone point me to an address, that would disable LC ? Not enable, but but disable. Brake pressure requirement, engine temp or any other map that would eventually disable LC in this Cxx file Thanks. 6b3fe is KusLauchNAbMax_ko set this to a proper negative value (stock uses -1000) and it is disabled |
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untilnow
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« Reply #319 on: September 01, 2023, 12:53:46 PM »
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Proper ECU tune which reports torque to the gearbox in a linear fashion.
It doesn't even matter what the absolute numbers are, it's just important that it is linear.
Or destroy the microslip control and make the gearbox drive like shit with excessive pressure all the time.
But I'm not going to tell you how to do it.
MDNORM has almost zero effect on DSG. The absolute numbers matter very little.
The important part is that kfmirl and kfmiop are completely linear with actual torque.
If they are not you will have slip.
Could you explain what you mean by this please, I don't know if you mean a correct corresponding irl/iop relationship (that's been covered a thousand times already) or the maps themselves being a linear shape (like stock)? |
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d3irb
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« Reply #320 on: September 01, 2023, 02:59:09 PM »
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The _slope_ of the line reporting torque needs to match the _slope_ of the actual torque. That is, if torque increases by 2x from point A to point B, the reported value also must increase by 2x or DSG is sad. Which usually means reported torque needs to be a line, or pretty close to a line, unless you're running your setup in some terrible inefficient area.
If you scale the whole line (ie underreport torque by 30% ACROSS THE BOARD), things continue to work as long as you re-adapt the DSG, although there is usually no reason to do this if you are competent and/or have access to a DSG ASW torque cap patch. If you flatten the top off (like most clueless tuners), everything breaks.
The absolute numeric values are not important on DQ250, the slope/gradient is what is important. The way the clutch model on DQ250 works is basically by picking two data points and drawing a line to determine the relationship between clutch engagement and pressure. The values that are used to draw the line are not important so long as everything is scaled to fit on that same line.
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untilnow
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« Reply #321 on: September 02, 2023, 06:42:20 AM »
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The _slope_ of the line reporting torque needs to match the _slope_ of the actual torque. That is, if torque increases by 2x from point A to point B, the reported value also must increase by 2x or DSG is sad. Which usually means reported torque needs to be a line, or pretty close to a line, unless you're running your setup in some terrible inefficient area.
If you scale the whole line (ie underreport torque by 30% ACROSS THE BOARD), things continue to work as long as you re-adapt the DSG, although there is usually no reason to do this if you are competent and/or have access to a DSG ASW torque cap patch. If you flatten the top off (like most clueless tuners), everything breaks.
The absolute numeric values are not important on DQ250, the slope/gradient is what is important. The way the clutch model on DQ250 works is basically by picking two data points and drawing a line to determine the relationship between clutch engagement and pressure. The values that are used to draw the line are not important so long as everything is scaled to fit on that same line.
I'm not planning on taking the under reporting of torque route so correct me if I'm wrong: Once you have set KFMIRL for your target load it is crucial to have it match KFMIOP, as KFMIOP is what is used to look-up actual torque, based on actual load. I'm assuming there are other factors, otherwise increasing KFMIRL is essentially under scaling torque? Actual torque is then reported to TCU and providing there is no limitation, a clutch pressure is calculated that has a 1:1 correlation to reported torque. If reported torque and actual torque are out of wack, the TCU cannot do its job. edit* To infer from: "The _slope_ of the line reporting torque needs to match the _slope_ of the actual torque. That is, if torque increases by 2x from point A to point B, the reported value also must increase by 2x or DSG is sad" Thus, increasing the last 2 rows of of KFMIRL is alright (KFMIRL is no longer linear shape) as long as it is represented in KFMIOP. Ergo, load and torque don't need to be linear, only KFMIRL and KFMIOP need have correct correlation? |
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« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 02:54:32 PM by untilnow »
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prj
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« Reply #322 on: September 04, 2023, 06:06:14 AM »
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The fundamental issue is that KFMIRL is inverse of KFMIOP.
Everyone here tunes KFMIRL first and then makes KFMIOP match it. This works only as long as nothing in the powertrain gives a shit about the actual torque.
Once you realize that KFMIOP is load to torque and tune that first, then everything else falls into place.
And yeah to do that right you will need a dyno.
Or you can do like all the super tuners do and mess with the adaptations so the DSG runs way too much pressure all the time.
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untilnow
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« Reply #323 on: September 05, 2023, 04:42:00 AM »
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The fundamental issue is that KFMIRL is inverse of KFMIOP.
Everyone here tunes KFMIRL first and then makes KFMIOP match it. This works only as long as nothing in the powertrain gives a shit about the actual torque.
Once you realize that KFMIOP is load to torque and tune that first, then everything else falls into place.
And yeah to do that right you will need a dyno.
Or you can do like all the super tuners do and mess with the adaptations so the DSG runs way too much pressure all the time.
You know what, you've summed it up there, reading that just made it click. Pretty simple really.  I guess the procedure would be to figure out the max torque you are looking for, 500nm for example and treat that as say 90 torque, then find the corresponding load points for all other torque figures ie. 250nm @ 45 torque, 400nm @ 72 torque (90/500*400), with the corresponding RPMs of course, then plug it into IOP. Internal ECU torque is linear with ACTUAL torque. |
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ktm733
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« Reply #324 on: September 05, 2023, 05:43:28 AM »
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You're saying on an engine dyno stand the torque reported will match ecu reported torque via can readings? Am I reading this correctly?
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untilnow
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« Reply #325 on: September 05, 2023, 06:23:52 AM »
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You're saying on an engine dyno stand the torque reported will match ecu reported torque via can readings? Am I reading this correctly?
No, torque is a 0-100 figure in med9.1, I was describing the process of making actual torque from the engine linear (1:1) with ECU torque via KFMIOP because the DSG applies clutch pressure 1:1 with torque. |
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prj
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« Reply #326 on: September 05, 2023, 08:19:40 AM »
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You know what, you've summed it up there, reading that just made it click. Pretty simple really. I guess the procedure would be to figure out the max torque you are looking for, 500nm for example and treat that as say 90 torque, then find the corresponding load points for all other torque figures ie. 250nm @ 45 torque, 400nm @ 72 torque (90/500*400), with the corresponding RPMs of course, then plug it into IOP. Internal ECU torque is linear with ACTUAL torque. Yes, but "treat" is not the right word. 100% is MDNORM. Also, the issue is that a lot of the stuff in the ECU uses torque internally, such as idle pid, friction torque etc. Once you change your 100% to something else, you have to change everything else too. It's kinda like 5120, just for torque. DQ250 also can't really read higher than 630nm. |
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untilnow
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« Reply #327 on: September 06, 2023, 12:47:58 AM »
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Yes, but "treat" is not the right word. 100% is MDNORM.
Also, the issue is that a lot of the stuff in the ECU uses torque internally, such as idle pid, friction torque etc.
Once you change your 100% to something else, you have to change everything else too.
It's kinda like 5120, just for torque.
DQ250 also can't really read higher than 630nm.
Okay, I understand. I take it no one has a definitive list of the maps that need scaling? I don't mind doing the testing/logging. |
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prj
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« Reply #328 on: September 06, 2023, 01:01:21 AM »
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Mostly Dashpot, LSD, LLR and then friction tq.
It is actually possible to do some data processing by parsing an a2l file and then programmatically checking whether there is torque anywhere.
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untilnow
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« Reply #329 on: September 06, 2023, 12:26:45 PM »
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Mostly Dashpot, LSD, LLR and then friction tq.
It is actually possible to do some data processing by parsing an a2l file and then programmatically checking whether there is torque anywhere.
Just spent a few hours looking through an a2l file and the FR. A full 5120 like patch may take some time. Not 100% sure I know exactly what I'm looking for tbh. I guy I know who deals with a lot of TFSIs says, "it's the remaps that break the DSG" I guess not every tuner is prepared to go through this lol. Not quitting yet though, if anyone else wants to pitch in... |
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