NefMoto

Go to page 5, where all mehanical and electrical problems are solved



First at all don't judge me and my setup, please  ::)
The engine is AEB, AWT ECU. Injectors 310 cc from AGU engine, MAF is from 2.5tdi with 3 inch housing, and MAP sensor is 2 bar from 1.9tdi. Turbo is K03 hibrid with K04 compressor wheel

Car starts, runs, pull with no isssues. Even the fuel trim's are great.  
On stock flash engine hold presure on 0.5 bar, MAF go to 125 g/s so everything what engine desire it get's. (In real world the presure is 0.8 bar and flow rate is around 170 g/s  8) schh ECU doesen't know about that  ::) )

So for stage 1 tune I change LDRXN and LAMFA, but I only get 1-2 psi more than on stock flash. Actual boost doesn't follow desired, WG is at 70%
KFLDHBN as I can see is no problem
As I can see the ECU follow about 90% of KFMIRL, so do i need to change this map?
I don't have clue what to do next?

You need more IMX

That make sense, thank you very much  :) . I will try it tomorrow. And post here results

It's not a tuning problem I think.

You have on 6000 rpm 95% DC and only 0.55 bar boost.
A working K03 turbo at this DC should make around 0.9 bar boost if not more.

Also in the midrange, at 75% DC a standard K03 turbo will make 1.1-1.2 bar.

I would check for boost leaks, check dump valve is working etc.

Here is an example WGDC vs actual boost chart from a car with everything working correctly.
I have dozens of them and they all look pretty much the same.

The MAP sensor is from 1.9tdi so it lie to ECU. The ECU read 0.55bar, but the real boost is around 0.9

Stock k03 will not go over 1 bar boost (even at peak) on AEB with front mount intercooler. At least not from my experience
This is K03-029 stock, big front IC, N75 connected to 12V all time
https://youtu.be/d2uKm-WbU9k
As you can see it can not produce to much boost. I try several more turbos(all in good shape) but there was no signifient difference.

Soo 1.2 bar on 75% WGDC with stock k03 is only possible in hot days with small intercooler, but that is not booost, it is hot air. Maybe I am wrong but that is my experience so far

Boost is boost regardless of its temperature. Yes cooler air at the same boost level will provide better perfomance. Also generally speaking a bigger intercooler "doesnt take" a ton boost away, it just increases lag a tiny bit but the pressure drop will be lower than a tiny one, depends on the quality, and design of it.

Why dont you calibrate the MAP to read actual ?

This is inexcusable.

Do the math  ::)

Now i looked under the hood
On my N75, the boost and WG hoses are switched,my bad. So first tomorrow I will put them to original state


airdensity is matter. Colder air,less pressure is the same air density as hot air, high pressure. Generaly speaking... Of course there is formuls to calculate relationship.

If you have K03 and lets say it boost up around 1.2-1.3 bar the outlet temp is around 80-90C. If you cool down that air with big IC to around 20 C. You will have same density, but boost will drop beacuse colder air is schrinked.
I am sorry I can't explain it better beacuse that is what I can do with my englisch. But I think you get the point, hot air expands(as any other fluid), in closed sistem it build more pressure.

I didn't calibrate my MAP, beacuse for now there is no need to do it.

One more time I apologize if I am rude in some sentece. My englesich is not best, so sometimes it can look like I am rude or arogant. But that is not reallity, I really respect all you guys and everything you do

Incorrect.

In future i have plan to calibrate MAF and MAP. When I have enought time and knowledge to do it. But for now the car is running realy fine. I know that is not by all rules, but if is it working why is so neccesery to do it?


Sorry but i dont get it?

yes it matters, i know how it works, but all i am saying 1.2bar is 1.2 bar :) hot air is still air :P

Your car is definitely NOT running fine, from the looks of your logs. I would not drive it.

if its worked then why you start the topic?
its a primary load inputs and in your case theyre should be calibated fine

170gs its a typical k03 limit
youre basically running some kind of st1

Ok I will listen to you, and start study how to scale everything to be as it schould.

I mean it work fine for every day driving for me that is enought. I am still in learning process how ME7 works, and tuning on it is yust a bonus.
My turbo is K03 with K04 compresor wheel, so it can go to about 185-190gs

Start with calibrting em, its not hard and all covered here
Its a hard (and meaningless) way to find a problem if so many things fucked up

After calibrating I will have other work to done, I am sure at 190 gs BTS will kick in, and so other MAPs need to be modified, as I said in future when I have time I will do everything accordenly. For now, this "shortcut" will work, trust me this engine will withstand it. He had gone tru worse than this.
And at the end if I reach dead end, I always can buy stock MAP and MAF

As the prj said, here is mehanical problem. Hoses on N75 was switched, I put it back as schould be and now I get boost i desired

Thank you all for your help

Then you never tuned AEB or AGU that was functioning correctly.
I have done more than 20 of them, and if they don't have boost leaks or other problems they all hit 1.1-1.2 bar with 75% DC in my experience.
FMIC or no FMIC. That FMIC is not gonna lower your temp by 70 degrees. Mid pull the IAT will be max 5 degrees different, only on a longer pull will there be significant difference.

Look at the log of the screenshot that I sent you - the date is from 2012. It's 2019 now, so I have done a few ;)

Underscaled boost sensor is really dumb though, just scale it - there are 2 constants to change only!

I don't know then where is missundestend, I and including my friends, and all tuners I know confirmed me, that it not able to get more than 195 HP from K03-029.  And all go to around 9-10 psi to readline. I trust you, i bellive you are better tuner than me, I am still in learning process. This is my daily car, I don't have too much time to optimize map to perfection. But as I say I was not ablle to get more than 9-10 psi at high rpm, even when the WG is not noneccted at all.  Maybe my WG spring doesnt work best,or is not enought tension on it... For me it doesne't mather beacuse the garret is wainting in garage


I wil give it a try

This was my car with AEB harness and K03 hybrid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ6RNs7eNi8

Also you converted to DBW right, and the used wideband from diesel too ?

I was talking about mid-range boost - there is no problem. On 7000 rpm 0.7 bar sounds correct.

what is point of your post?

I found 399 (2.5bar) Map in garage, soo I will only change it

DSLOFS and DSLGRAD is for MAP sensor. Shouldnt be hard to find them. Formula on how to calculate proper values is in FR.

I know, but it is easier to change MAP. On my car is easy to get it out

I am curious lol.. you have a DBC ecu by default setup - the AWT is 1024kb dbw , wideband? ecu so I am assuming you converted the pedal assembly etc.

Yes yes, ECU is 1024 kb DBW, wideband. And yes the pedal (on car) is converted to electric.

Ok, i put the original MAP on car (the MAF is still from 2.5 TDI). LDRXN is set to 1-1.2 bar. But boost desired is only about 0.8 bar.

LDRXN is not in units of pressure.

As you wish

The conversion that is found on s4 wiki can be off by more than 30%.

LOL I *personally* added that map as a hack. See the s4 wiki which tells you over and over that that is an approximation

don't make me remove it from the map pack

:)

Soo you will catch every my wrong word and make fun of me?
Don't look on everything so negative. I post that picture so we can translate our disscution in engine load.
But yes LDRXN, not so much from wiki as from topic stage 1 1.8T create distraction what is need to done.

Back to topic... from wiki

As mentioned before, driver requested load rlsol (aka ECUx "EngineLoadRequested") from KFPED/KFMIRL
My rlsol is low, soo is time to change this maps and see what will hapen

Sorry, yes, I apologize.

You are on the right track now.

Everything okay man, apologize accepted, thank you. My apologize for being rude.

Yust give me some time, this is my second day in tuning ME7. Even if I want I can't catch everything over the night. I read/learn, test on car and post it on forum.

These are not the maps you are looking for.

Can you give me more information please?
KFPED is pedal request, so no need to change this
but i see KFMIRL and KFMIOP have bigger values on 225 PS ECU

KFPED is torque request from pedal position and RPM, KFMIRL is torque request to desired load, KFMIOP is optimal torque from load. you dont control throttle angle with KFPED, FUEDK does.

Yes, you will need to modify KFMIRL if you want more load request than stock.

In his file he only needs to extend KFMIOP.

I put values from STAGE 1 (from this forum) in KFMIRL and KFMIOP,  to see what will happen.
 Now I am getting closer, the maps are little bit too agressive so it need to done fine tuning.
The "engine load requested" now trace KFLDHBN, and that was exactly what I want to achive.
Now my plan is to do fine tuning on KFMIRL and KFMIOP, and then again limit boost(load) by LDRXN, and lower it a little bit beacuse my injectors can't supply enought fuel

Thank you all for your patience, and help

Left is modified map, on right is original

Yust to clear one thing if I get it right. Roughtly say  KFMIOP is % of KFMIRL.
As I can see from my logs at 100% pedal and 5800 RPM my rlsol is  146
From tables KFMIRL is 193, and KFMIOP 75. So little matemathic 70% from 193 is  144 I say rought, beacuse I know the ECU will adjust this value by some other maps like IAT temp, colant temp etc

There is nothing to tune in these maps.
It's a mathematical inverse. All you need to modify is the last column on each.

Agreed, IRL looks fine.

what this mean?

Why yust last column. When I drifting it would be so hard to keep car in control if I have stock power till 85% throttle

Edit. I set KFMIRL to stock, and first two columns KFMIOP to stock. Now car runs smoother. I will post logs and maps after some testing

If you feed a torque->IRL, then feed that load value into IOP, you should get the torque you started with.

Same with load->IOP->IRL

They exist to convert torque to/from load, in both directions.

If you read the s4wiki closely, you can see what the purpose is.

LOL

Oh man... at least look at the files and what load you are using...

And it's just you swedish meatball ;)

soo i wass not so far with this post






Now i laught to myself. LOL, maybe i need to have a rest for few days . I want to understand to much in short time

Every time i take log my AFR is getting worst, i think my fuel pump is at the end. So first i need to take care of that issue

oof that 10.5 AFR @ the end, are you running NA pistons and 87 octane gas  or something :D

Its a stock bts setting i believe

Stock pistons and 95 octane

yes stock bts settings, need some adusment on that area, but first i need to work on hardware. One more reason the BGS is so high beacuse tiny IC on my car, and that was log from second race. IAT go to heaven

New IC and new high flow fuel pump is wainting in garage, so after instaling them I will continue to do tuning on ECU

Here some news. I put high flow fuel pump and bigger IC. Now situation is waaay better. I don't know witch map is on car, i will make new map from begining and after fine tuning post it on forum. Now when hardware problem is solved I can continue with tuning

form stock map, I raised IMX so I can build more boost at middle RPM
KFLDBHN raised whole map
LDRXN little to agresive
KFMIOP raised last few columns, and BTS raised to some normal values
i didn't touch KFMIRL
My rsol start to drop when MAF hit 140 g/s and hold it there to 140 g/s. Soo schould I touch now KFMIRL or raise even more KFMIOP

In atachmetn 3. gear pull, and acceleration from first to 4. gear

hi,

you should also modify your kfmiop load axis ;)

imx axis looking too optimistic for the k04 ))

did you mean to say LDRXN axis?

Some news, i raised KFMIRL and KFMIOP more, and now rsol is folowing KFDLHBN, until 6000 RPM.  For now that is good, there is no need to rev this turbo and engine higer.
Again I have some mehanical problem  :-[ beacuse turbo can't hold pressure, (3 weeks ago at 70% WDC turbo was building more pressure than now on 95% WDC).
My car starts, runs and behavers really nice.  Soo is there need to scale MAF? MAF is still from 2.5 TDI with 3 inch housing, i didn't change anything in flash to scale MAF.

Why a 2bar MAP, MAF sensors from diesels and wrong housing size and no adjustments?

The MAP is original now from AWT, only 2.5 TDI MAF is not from this engine
3" housing is beacuse K04. And 2.5 MAF beacuse I have few of them in garage. To short story, I put it only temporary, but as the time past I didn't notice any problems with car, except mehanical problems. Now when i solved all mehanical problems. I ask you is there need to make adjusnent to MAF,, beacuse you are more experience. And the main question why?

hi,

all starts from fueling, when you have not calibrated your maf for new housing, then please do not change anything else, until you get it solved and calibrated. I recomend to measure your old maf sensor diameter (in wich you had correct fueling) and the new one (really measure it), now you know how much the new one is bigger than old one, and then use this data in your MLHFM map to adjust, should give you a some kind of a starting point...

But that what i want to say, i have with this MAF good fueling. As I can see from my perspective. But maybe someone who have more experinece can tell me what is wrong with using wrong MAF values if my fueling is okay

are you using your "original" maf sensor inside your new maf housing or is there all new maf sensor with new housing?

No I use 2.5TDI MAF in 2.5 TDI housing(3")

Okay you win, I will scale my MAF properly. At the end my life quote is "do it right, or not at all"

I put original MAF in 3 inch housing. And scale it with "mafasdjust" tool  
Copied KFMIOP,KFMIRL,KFMLDMN,KFMLDMX, and NLMAX from 225 PS TT file
I have this problems,  PS_W goes off actual boost.  Is this normal when scaling maf with "mafasdjust" and should I, adjust those areas manualy?
Tourqe goes up and down, and you can feel that in car, nolinear acceleration
And again at high rpm rsol drops down, doesen't follow LDRXN
Can someone give me futher instructions,what schould i do?

Edit: I raised KFMIRL,KFMLDMX and NLMAX in sky, but no difference. My MAF stop at 170g/s. I am out ideas, no clue what is blocking that ECU wont request more load?  ???

Some things are not really clear to me...
Note that milsol will be limited by the output of KFMIOP (where the load input is rlmax), and the stock values of KFMIOP never exceed 89%. This means that unless you alter the max values of KFMIOP (no, there is no reason to do this), the largest torque request KFMIRL will see is 89%. Tune KFMIRL (not KFMIOP) accordingly.

89% of what???

Is this is a sarcasam?

1) torque
2) no

In RS4 file values in KFMIOP are greater than 89%? Did you mean about that torque?
Tuning only KFMIRL lead me to torque intervention, what I believe is limiting my rlsol

I don't see that in my 551F stock file.

If you alter KFMIRL you will always need to change IOP to follow your KFMIRL changes, but that does NOT necessarily mean increasing IOP torque past 95%.

I take file from here
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=8058.0title=

I read threads about KFMIOP and KFMIRL last few days. That caclulation is some sort of play betwen cat and mouse. In teory I catch some things. But I see it is not soo simple (special to me beacuse my mathematic is awful) so some testing in real world schould lead me to solution

The bigest missunderstanding for me is that wiki text i posted above, beacuse I was looking on 1.8T file so I could't find any relationship, but wiki is writen according to M box, I did't take that in,while I was trying to understand how that all works.

I will now take back KFMIRL to stock 225 PS values, and try to lower values in KFMIOP

Sorry, correction, you are right, the rs4 iop maxes out at 95%

Lowering KFMIOP values gave me some change. But still ECU won't request more power. I have no clue what to do???

Please please I beg you people, can someone explain me how that matematical inverse work?  More than month I am reading things about KFMRIL and KFMIOP but still i can't get it. Is it possible that is so hard to understand?
Please correct me where I went wrong:
This is KFMIOP load axis from 225 PS, all other values od KFMIOP are from 150 PS
KFMIRL values from 225 PS
At full throttle (100% load)->4000 rpm->KFMIRL value is 212.   Last column od KFMIOP is 190, so at 4000 RPM i KFMIOP is 77%
212(KFMIRL) to 77%(KFMIOP) is 163%
(https://i.postimg.cc/HLy6hGMd/stock-KFMIOP22.png) (https://postimages.org/)

But my rsol is 134, and that doesen't have any sense  ???
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0LbQSTx/stock-KFMIOP2.png) (https://postimg.cc/4KRLBPP6)

Now let's see what will hapen if I raise last column of KFMIOP by 10
(https://i.postimg.cc/7ZdkzkDk/10-KFMIOP2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
At higer RPM I have more load but still on 4000 RPM  rsol is 134
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgvz12km/10-KFMIOP22.png) (https://postimg.cc/qNVS5pM6)


Please anybody, can you explain me what I am doing wrong tryinig to figure out how all that work

HBN or something else is limiting rlsol

I would love that HBN is a reason, but is not  :-\ :-\
Here is complete log

Why on earth do your IRL and IOP go up then down then up again? WTF are you trying to do and why?

Those are stock values from AUDI

That is so damn weird. WTF are they smoking?

Anyway looks at ldrlms

No more tuning for me :'( :'( for now

Wtf. What happend?? :'(

 I put stock 150 ps flash on ECU. And try to go 3 gear WOT, the road was wet and at 120 kmh I get wheelspin at rear wheels.  I am so happy beacuse I don't have any inury. But car is totaled.
But that wheelspin doesn't have any sense, beacuse I drive car for more than year and never get wheelspin in 2. gear even at 250 ps. I don't have clue why I get 3. Gear wheelspin at that speed. It must be oil on road or something

Well that sucks man. Thank that nothing happend to you. Safe roads!