NefMoto

I am finishing up my swap from 1.8t to 2.7T single turbo and will be trying to tune the thing myself.  I still have some issues to work, but for the most part the engine is running and ready to be dialed in.  

So far I have a stage 1 tune.  It has emmisions related stuff deleted so I can get this thing registered, and to help troubleshoot issues since it is a "proven" tune.  

Right now I am trouble shooting why the MAF is reading all sorts of crazy.  

Maf not connected fuel block 1 lamda reads around =/-5%.  With maf connected I am getting -25% on bank 1 and ~+15% on the other. The maf will read 12g/s at idle and will fluctuate between 230 and 350 with slight throttle holding rpms at about 2k.   Car barely idles and will not rev with the trim battles going on.  The two sensors are in my down pipe right after the turbo.  

Maf Disconnected I can drive the car around, but there is a major hitch when going from low vaccum to low boost.  I have watched my wideband go stupid lean in this area, and trhen all the sudden fueling kicks in and it takes off until throttle cut. (running off of the wg spring right now, so boost needs to be dialed in)

M box software?

What intake tract, MAF housing and sensor?

The tune is written by Brian@audis4parts? Is it properly running on other cars?

Do you have the binary? Have you compared it to original?

It has M box satge one file written on it.  I dont know if he wrote it, or just flashing the a file he has from some other source.  I dont know if it is really running on other cars.  I just assumed that since I asked for as few mods as possible, just emmsions deletes, that my car would run decent enough.  I tried to red the file from the ECM last night but the flash utility kept getting hung up on the trying to communicate with the ecm.  I kept having to close the program and pull power to the ECM so it would reset.

I was using a 4" (turbo inlet size) to 3.5" reducing 90deg silicon elbow with the maf on the end of it. 

Pics of the VCDS:

Main Reason I want to keep this file around:  nothing is plugged in.
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0399.jpg)

Maf unplugged :  Lambdas seem ok
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0394.jpg)

Maf plugged:  Idle and @~2k rpms
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0391.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0392.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0393.jpg)

Also to add, I am getting multiple short to ground faults.  I traced them in the wiring diagrams and it seems that the n75 and n80 are wired in to the rear o2s.  I did cut the plugs for the rear o2s out of the harness, and these solenoids/valves are linked to their power right after the fuse.  I am hoping I dont have to take my harness back apart to fix this.

I cut everything and the n80 out.  no faults or shorts to ground.  you also need to turn off interchanged sensor recognition for the front o2s when they are in the same pipe.

I guess I just sent you a PM asking you about the primary o2s.  I would really like to only use one sensor. 

You cut all that stuff out of the harness?  The only thing I want under my hood is the N75.  I would love to have all that stuff gone.  No resistors, no plugs, no extra wires, no fault codes, and readiness set. 

The setup I am still trying to finish:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0357-1.jpg)

Here is the stg 1 file I have flashed on my M-box.  I ran the difference tool between that and the stock bin and its showing there to be So,e changes to timing and MAF.  I read on the wiki that the MLOFS (MAF OFFSET) was supposed to be 0 or 200, in this fiel it is 513.7.  I dont know what that does, but I also comapred it to my buddies tuned file and his is set to 0 like the wiki says for a hitachi MAF.   ???  What am I missing here? 

On the file, the only thing I changed was the interchanged sensor functions like here:
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=722.msg6469#msg6469

Interesting setup.  What did you do for exhaust manifolds?  Any pics of the hardware fabrication?

I do have pics of it all.  The manifolds are 304 stainless pipe log manifolds with v bands on the ends, nothing special really.  I will try to post more in the morning.

Looking deeper in the file I have shows the MLHFM to be all sorts of WTF as compared to three other files I have.  The tunes I am looking at have towards the bottom arounf 1000.00, my file has stuff over 6000.00

I flashed my file I pieced together from the stg 2++ tune.  I was pretty skeptical at first because it was my first time doing the whole process, and I had to change so many things around for my particular setup.  

Started the car, MAF unplugged and first thing I noticed was the fact that with the Maf unplugged it no longer had a 12-13gps value.  It was ZERO like it should have been.  That eliminated wiring to and from the MAF like I was thinking.  Car was still pulling a lot of fuel at idle, I blame it on me not having the MAF hooked up.  

I took it for a spin around the block and was pleasantly surprised.  Again I was skeptical.  I took it easy for the first few seconds just to see if anything was obviously wrong.  Turned onto my WOT in First gear street, slowly revved to 3.5k and braced myself....either I was going to go flying forward from the violent jerking it was doing around that RPM range, or I was going to get pushed back and have to grab 2nd.  I can gladly say, that the car didnt hesitate and got right down to business.  Almost instantly I got all 13psi (still on WG spring).  I did this for a few more times around the block just to be sure it wasnt a fluke and then parked it so I wouldnt continue to look like a jackass.

This whole time I thought my issues were all hardware related.    

I'm confused, are you using the stock MAF housing after the 3.5" intake tract?  What injectors?  I'd keep an eye on the wideband if you're using a stage 2 (stock MAF/injectors file) with completely different hardware.

I am not using any MAF right at the moment because with my original "tuned" file I got eratic readings and the car wouldnt even idle.  I thought I had a bad MAF ^ see pictures above of the VCDS readings with Maf plugged and unplugged.  I will be throwing the Maf back in the mix today to see if in fact it is bad.  Hopefully by the end of the day I will be able to start on the Stg 3 file hacking.

WOW! the guy that wrote my tune, or flashed my tune is a member on this forum.  I compared the tune he posted that he runs on his car to the one I had on mine and just WOW!  not even close.  Imma erase his company name from my thread.....and just say my setup just didnt run well with the tune.

What is the diameter/manufacturer of the maf housing that you are going to put on?

85mm 034

What injectors are you using?

With that MAF, you're probably better off starting with either Tony's or BerTTo's stage 3 tune as your base file (they're both using 85mm MAF housings, IIRC), rather than starting with a stage 2 file.

I am using the 630's.  I have a buddy that is semi local that has sent me his stg 3 tune to start off with.  I did all of the readiness tweaks to it last night, swapped the injectors, and gave it s shot.  My setup isnt complete hardware-wise, so I take it easy.  I still need to finish up my inlet so I can run it with MAF.  Also, I need to get a definite way to run the n75 to a external wg.  

I was running the stg 1 tune so I can exclude that variable and hopefully get the car registered.  The stg 2 tunes purpose was to troubleshoot the stg 1 tune and because I didnt want to add the 630cc injectors in the mix until I had an idea of what was going on.  It is a motor swap first and foremost.  I didn't want too many unknown variables making me waste time and money.  I assumed the stg 1 Tune would have been solid and would eliminate the possibility of any tune realted issues in the intitial stages of me running the motor in my car.  It's purpose was just to get the car running so I can check everything over before moving to another tune.  Hell, I really wanted a completely stock file with just emissions deleted.  Once registered I was going to flash the stg 3 file and tweak from there.  At that point I would really be able to get some logs, versus hoping I dont run into the law and have to explain why I am driving around in a car with tabs that expired a year ago.

If my was was a S4 to begin with, yeah, I would have flashed the stg 3 file and got right to business.  Right now I have my own issues that I think are specific to my build only and not a S4 or a A4.  I am only telling you guys of the engine tune related issues have.  Other things that still need answers are:  why the speedo still isnt working? do I need to have my cluster recoded?  What is the open circuit to my N75...along with about 3 other faults, and are they because of an actual bad part or because I havent done something and the ecu is pissed beacuse it is looking for something S4 specific and I forgot to graft it over?  Everyday more and more issues get resolved.  You have to see the videos I have on you tube of the first start.  It was terrible, but it ran.  Fast forward to now and you can see the progress.  But, I wasted a LOT of time trying to troubleshoot the drivablity issue I was having only to find out it was the variable that I didnt want added to the mix.

Today I hooked up the N75 and Tried to finish up my inlet.  I am not really liking how it is turning out.  I spent some time trying to adjust the PID (KFLDRL).  I am getting massive throttle cut and wanted to get the N75 in line.  I also changed out the KFMIRL for a map that has a bit lower values closer to the stg2++ tune.   I couldnt get the car to boost past 5psi in first or second, and then in third there wasnt any more TC.  I didnt have any throttle cut on he 2++ tune, and I felt that in between the two files would be a good starting point so I stole Snow Trooper's KFMIRL.   

After I am able to get into boost without throttle cut in my not so jackass in the neighborhood gears, I will get some logs posted.  Still trying to get the o2 to pass emmisions.  On a side note I also tied the signal wire from the two o2 sensors together so the ecu is reading from one sensor for the 2 banks. 

I want to start making changes to my timing in the lower regions.  KFZW/KFZW2?  I am comparing the troopers timing to the file I have.  It looks like he was able to add quite a bit more timing up top.  I wont get into that are and leave it on the safe side for now.  I still need to upgrade my intercooler.

If you're looking to keep make it a straight engine swap first, you should have the stock injectors in, not the 630cc.  Trying to run big injectors on a stock, stage 1, or stage 2 tune is likely going to be terrible to use as a base tune to try to sort other drivability issues out.

When I was running the stg 1 and 2 tunes I had all the stock hardware in. I just switched in the 630's and the 85mm when I flashed to stg 3

I know you guys are going to ask for logs, but I have something going on and I am not exactly sure where to start.  Maybe if I can give a description you can point me in the right direction.

First of all I am using a Holset HE351VE.  It's a variable geometry turbo.  Currently I am using a 7 psi internal wastegate actuator to move the vanes from full closed to wide.  My setup will start spooling really early in the rpms, around 2.5k.  After the actuator starts moving, I dont know when it actually starts cracking, the boost will continue to build very quickly as the VGT opens up fully.  

I am using 304ss 1 1/4"  sched 10 piping for my log style manifolds and they merge to a 1 1/2" sched 10 pipe crossover that meets at the turbine inlet.  I chose this side for the manifolds to aid in spooling.  My exhaust is 3" from the turbo back.  I am running a small tube style catalytic converter and two mufflers.  

Here's a vid of when my car was 4cyl and I was running this turbo.  
http://s360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/stroker%20build/?action=view&current=SNC00473.mp4

I tuned that car via Maestro.  I never got it dynoed since the motor got wiped out with road debris and a broken oil pan.  I refused to build another 4cyl and still only get 400awhp when the 2.7 guys are making high 400's without even building the motor.  There is a local guy that is AMD tuned on 605's and he dynoed at like 492awhp.

Now, when I was 4 cyl my car would actually start spooling around the same rpm with this same turbo when I was tuning it.  On this motor I build boost around the same rpms's for right now.  I am a little bit disappointed with that for right now, but I am sure as I tune I can get it much better. The thing that is really getting me is the throttle cut as the boost comes on in 1st and 2nd.  If a I am at WOT all is well, but when I am slowly adding the pedal, it seems as if the ecm doesnt like it under part throttle situations and will cut the throttle until I go WOT and let it go. 

I am looking at a few tunes trying to get a good refernce as to where to start.  When I had the stock injectors in and ran the stg 2++ tune ther wasnt any throttle cut whatsoever.  I was flipping back and forth between the stg 3 stune I have in my ecm, Berttos stg 3 tune, Snow Troopers singe turbo file and 2++.  From what I have read I am thinking it has to do with the KMFIRL, LDRXN and KFMIOP. 

KFMIOP:  Current tune, Berttos stg 3, 2++ file
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/stroker%20build/IMAG0420.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/stroker%20build/IMAG0419.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/stroker%20build/IMAG0418.jpg)

My current tune does not have the map scaled the same as as Bert's tune, but Berts tune still gave me throttle cut when I flashed it.

KFMIRL:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/stroker%20build/IMAG0422.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/stroker%20build/IMAG0423.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/stroker%20build/IMAG0424.jpg)

More cleaning this weekend:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0434.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0435.jpg)

I bet your car is making more than requested too early due to your variable turbo.  I wish you were local because I could try to help you better.  I dont fully understand your hardware setup but here is a crack at a file for you to possibly help.  it has a lot of things loosened up so you can hopefully get the car spooling sooner like it is supposed to without consequences.

I left your injector krkte and tvub stuff stock, put in what has been working for you.  Obviously this isnt fine tuned for you.  If you could get me logs it would really help.  Even just logs showing your boost vs requested.  Your wastegate thing is going to be hard to tune on the n75 IMHO because of the variable geometry.  As always use this at your own risk because I am doing some things here for you based on your crazy setup.  I do not have a variable nor have I messed with an variable setup on motronic.  The timing is near stock to get you moving without much risk.  Pay attention to your wideband and emulated data (I notice in the last pic you are no longer running the two oems)!!!!!  Take this, setup your krkte with your values, go out and start softly, if it keep cutting get back to me with some info on the conditions and we can go from there.

Happy tuning man

yo, definitely change your kfmiop and kfmirl to use the linked project, below, set to big turbo.
the kfmirl and kfmiop's you showed there are for mid-rpm turbos, right?  dual-k04's with mid-rpm response.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1371.0title=

I am semi-finished with my MAF.  My car HATES it as it sits.  I didnt know that damn thing was so sensitive.  I stuck my hand in front of the sensor just to see if it was pulling in air, and I stalled the motor.  I closed the hood and the idle went haywire.  I think I need to get some straight piping in front of the sensor to clean the readings up.

Pics:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0452.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0454.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0443.jpg)

Kind of what I was thinking of:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0449.jpg)

I dont know how it will react with the bend in front of it, and I will have to relocate the power steering res.  Maybe I can relocate the MAF a few inches back on the pipe and use that space for a straight section..  


edited to reword the last part

Maybe I can push the hotside piping more forwards and try to squeeze it here:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0456.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0455.jpg)

If I run it down there I should be able to run the 3.5" tube from the MAF all the way to the front core support.  But, things never work out as planned...I am sure it would be a major pita to squeeze that pipe in there.

The tables I showed are the ones from the files posted on the forum.  I havent changed any of them, I was just analyzing the differences so I can see which way I should go.  I attempted to use the calculators and I always seem to get something funky in the first few colums when I post my IRL and tell it to compute.  Also the IRL calculator table is bigger than my XDF is set to. 

Nice to see pics of the hardware.  Looks good, though probably a little short-sighted to wait until after everything is complete to figure out where you're going to run a MAF and filter.  You definitely want flow to be laminar by the sensor, so a straight section would be nice (if possible).  You'll probably want to run a flow straightener like this as well http://www.saxonpc.com/100mm-cells-for-100.html

  Do you use that program for stuff on your 2.7t m-box?  If so, I assume just to translate KFMIRL to KFMIOP, and possibly the KFZWOP converter?

Nothing really went as I planned or imagined with the plumbing.  I meant to relocate the ABS and the power steering res. so I would have a big open space to play with.  I got tired of messing around with all the little things and really wanted the car running, and I couldnt figure where to neatly tuck the abs and didnt want to remake the lines.  I had enough on my plate as it was.  Hindsight says I should have moved all that stuff because now I am in a bind.

My last setup in this car was MAFless so I forgot about all the little things needed to make it work.  Another thought.....I might buy a flange and have it welded further back on the intake, extend the charge piping more forward and weld more piping on the end of the intake pipe.  Do you think the readings will be messed up with a bend right behind the meter? 

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/product.phtml?p=2479&cat_key=467&prodname=Chevy+Corvette+Upgrade+MAF+Flange+Adapter

I think it has the potential to have erratic/incorrect readings, but you don't know until you try.  Before you go welding new flanges and whatnot, I'd probably just try the cheap trick of a flow straightener first.  Never know, it could be as simple as that $10 fix.

Thank you!  I was going to get one, but the ones I found were quite a bit more money.

Nice to see another single turbo car. I hope you iron out everything. good luck.

Thank you! 

WOW!

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4/msgs/149459.phtml

I dont know what the issue is there.   ???  No, love lost over it. 

I think that one guy confused you and FAW.  I was kinda confused on him saying you had an attitude, then i realized who he was referring to.

Hey Mu, welcome to nef.  You should put your car back onto motronic and tune it yourself, would be cool to have data on more setups.

Its Cool.

Whats your thoughts on the intake?  I dont want to send you jacked up logs because of it.  I flashed a few different stage three files yesterday just to see what the MAF was reading at idle.  They range from the low 5 to high 7 range. 

Ordered the flow straightener.  Since the guy is in Oregon(one state down)  i should have it pretty quick. 

Thanks for the link JibberJive. 

the maf will matter but it isnt crucial right now.  try running with it unplugged and in speed density mode.  as long as your AFRs stay ok while its unplugged it will be okay to start forming your maps.  the maf will be needed when its time to boost more than low 20s.

right now we need to see what your car, with nothing working against it is truly capable of spool wise.  we really need rpms vs spool vs requested and we can start to tackle getting the system to boost properly. that can even be logged with vag-com.

once we know what that turbo does on 2.7 liters we can map everything around that.

also, I think I left some of your o2 heater stuff on, if you get codes for them, ignore for now.

Hells YEAH!  I can do the logs without MAF no problem.  Without the MAF I can only get to 15psi (gage)  before TC kicks in.  I will have some logs for you later on this evening.  I am tempted to toss in the MBC and run a couple logs that way also to see if there is any difference.  Something just doesnt seem right.  I swear it is spooling like it was on the 4cyl.  

VAG-COM logs ok until I figure out ME7 logger?

Yes, vag com logs are okay, just dont do more than two blocks at a time.  Take caution when doing speed density (no MAF) as you are operating an a more basic system and much less safeguards and headroom in place.  Don't be afraid to set your krkte a little fat and have STFTs pulling fuel so in the event of an o2 sensor failure you would lock in rich.  If basic driveability is ok without cutting out and then also part throttle up to about 60% is ok and your AFRs are ok and you have also checked that short term fuel trims (STFTs) are functioning then try and get a pull in 3rd or 4th at 100% WOT.  dont worry about reving it out.  just get a good clean run or two in different gears below boost onset, through boost peak and then roll off.  Obviously if everything is looking ok and you want to get a full log then go for it but really the whole fats window doesnt matter.  running clean and hard is unmistakable.

The key on actual runs here is to have you flat on the gas and actually possibly bog the car a little.  We want to see at WOT where the magic is happening and also where its possibly doing something weird as your VTG is transitioning.  Go ahead and leave all data in the log files, its all informative, even idle.

Just dont get over zealous.  You will blow up the car with what that turbo can do if there are wastegate or fuel issues.  I am not sure what pump you are on and all that, just DO NOT go lean on boost no matter what.

snowtrooper did you turn your LTFT's off on your car?  or did you tune with them on and then turn them off after things were "close"?

VCDS log.  Throttle cut at 7psi and was kinda slow to build boost.

...and a ecux log file.  I am still figuring the program out.

tuned with them off, I run no n80

I will look it over and see what we got, I just went and tested my car on your exact file with it setup for my bosch maf and it was one of the best files my car has ever seen in regards to driveability.  I also held 25 psi smoothly.

brb.

Ok.  Last pull towards the end I hit about 15psi.  I had to ease into it and not go wot until I was close to 0 on the boost gage.

on a related note one of my diesel buddies is right here in my shop and he said you need to look into a Fleece Performance standalone VTG controler for the Holset.  You can control based off many variables

also, post up what krkte you are settling on and I can implement that in future revisions so you dont have to.  I can calculate theoretical if thats what you used.

Been there done that.  I called them and they said it runs off of the Can-Bus or whatever in that particular truck.  It was 2 years ago though, when I first got involved with this turbo.  Guy said they might come out with one that can be used in more applications, but I never heard anything back.  

It would be nice to have the thing wide open when crusing to lower EGT and backpressure.

Here is the file.  Gimme a sec to scroll and find the KRKTE.

found it:  0.05295

CSV of ECUX log

Cant get the ECUX plot to PLOT.... ???

Ok, reviewed the logs and at least we have a start. 

So first and foremost the car is cutting when the VTG activates via the wastegate spring.  You said the gate is a 7psi one right?  It is building up to 7 psi very soon and then when it transitions it falls on its face as the car cant keep spooling it around 3k, we need it to stay like a smaller turbine for longer. as the turbo "turns into a bigger turbine" for all intensive purposes.  You can see where the wastegate is dropping off as it thinks the spool is happening but then the spool rate falls off as the turbine opens up more.  I am going to raise the PID duty cycle % back up until you are more in the 5-6 rpm range.  I would be interesting to see what happens with the VTG disabled.

Here is the first revision, going to try holding the n75 shut for longer, this may over boost up high if we can even get you there yet.

I also attached the 4_runs_compare of yours (3) and last in there a log of my car on your file from this evening.  As you can see my car is spooling faster yet in theory yours should spool faster, yet at the start yours is actually out spooling it, way down low so the VTG in the closed position is obviously capable of the quick spool.  The VTG opening is messing things up like I suspected it would.  It needs to turn into a big turbo much later and possibly at more like 15-18 psi.

ecu x logs

Ok.  I am going to try to get the vgt to stay closed and run a log right now.

cool, I am home now so I can keep doing revisions as long as you are up to it.  will check here for updates.

I noticed in your log some area where you were trying part throttle, it does seem smoother.

We may be getting some of the cut from fuel issues also.  your o2 readings are weird.  I hope your emulated narrowband data is okay. did you shield the signal wires with a ground wire traveling the length of your new wiring?  If the ecu is getting really messed up fuel readings it will cut everything.

DAMN!  big difference.  VGT as before It boosted a lot better.  Went towards 20 psi at first and then I tried again and it cut at about 15.  Still felt a tad bit laggy, but was pretty strong.  

I pulled over and put a zip tie on the mechanism to keep it closed.....YOU WERE RIGHT!  That damn thing scared the crap outta me.  It boosted so fast and it kept pulling HARD.  I think I was heading to 20psi and I let off.  No cut whatsoever.  I tried to get it to cut and it wouldnt.  I let off becasue it didnt seem like it was going to stop.  

All I need is to get the last readiness flag to pass, and I will be on the road ready to do real full pulls.....

reviewing...

what readiness flag isnt passing?

Looks way, way better now!

I think for the time being you should try an MBC on that WG actuator controling the VTG and make it so that it acts more like a 17-20 psi actuator. 

Must be fun to finally feel it rip.  It is definitely going to overboost and cut (according to logs it did) on that last file, maybe try the first one with the VTG disabled and i bet it will be really smooth.

once the VTG is under control we can really open this beast up.  That spool is AWESOME

Explain my spool.  I really dont have anything to compare it to other than my 4cyl setup.  Looking at the logs it doesnt make any sense.  What Psi did I hit?  Give me the details!  I am hella stoked now.

I am surprised it even reacted the way it did with the VGT being closed the whole time.  That thing is supposed to close down really far, and I assumed it would be too small to do any good past where it is set now.  I am confused, it didnt pull at all like it was running out of breath.  I looked through the timing just to be sure, and there was hardly any pull either.  I just knew it was going to pull a ton of timing.  When the VGT is closed that far with that much boost....AGAIN...I assumed the EGT would be rediculous.  I guess we will have to see what is going to happen when I am finally able to rev it out.

Same readiness flag as the first page still NO-GO.

You peaked around 26 psi (over the MAP limit so i cant see) and it probably would have kept climbing really high had you not lifted.  This is a by product of the 95% duty cycle on the n75 with a 13-14lb spring like you run on your external gate.

you had 10 psi at 3500, 20 at 4000 with basically no timing, so spool will get better.  That spool is inline with GT based twin kits.

Next order of business for you is a MAF and VTG control.  We are on the right track for sure.  You ECU isnt receiving very smooth data from your wideband.  what setting do you have in your LC-1?  I will grab a screen shot of mine for you tomorrow.

It happenned so fast.  I basically turned the corner to my street in second gear, waited for the rpms to drop really low, slowly peddled it,  lugged it until it it boosted and it just boosted and got away from me.  

We are definately on the right track.  Thank you very much!

The wideband isnt hooked up yet.  I havent updated the firmware yet.  I will try and do it tomorrow while I am at work.

so what is feeding o2 data?  because the numbers are all over the place with no rhyme or reason.

Stock o2, with feed going to both inputs.

ewww...ohhh...

no good.  we gotta get that fixed and it will behave way better.  the lc1 has dual narrowband outputs.  it really does a buetiful job.  look in the first 4 run compare excel file I posted, review your 3 and then look at mine.  the car really behaves like it has two sensors.  yours is going nuts and cant possibly be helping.

just goes to show you how much better this thing will get.

I Updated the firmware on my Lc-1 to the 1.2 version.  Hopefully this fixes the 8 flash error.  I also changed the analog output #2 to match #1.  Hopefully this will be all that is needed to get it to work. 

I would like to see how you have yours set up.

Log of the car at idle.  Its running really rich.  -25% on the lamdas.

What changed?

I am running the lc-1 now.  I think something wacky is going on though.  Next time it was +25%.  I just recal.  The sensor and am on my way to get some clamps for the maf. 

New idle with MAF hooked up and LC-1 emmulating the o2's:

lc-1 settings

Ahh, I have the sampling rate higher than you do.

Tonights logs: 

I went back to the first file you sent me with the VGT still shut.  This time I had the maf hooked up and it ws working pretty good from what I saw at idle.

Log 1:  cruising with light load
 

LOG 2:  Power pull with TC

Idle after logging:

I did notice there where some changes to a few maps between the two files.  I am assuming the 2nd file was a bit better tuned fuel wise since the TVUB is changed?

Should i have ran that file instead?

no first file for sure, well the one that you adjusted krkte on.  The second file has a dangerous wastegate pid table for testing.

i am about to look at the recent log.

too quick of a sample rate makes the ecu try to switch back and forth too fast.

your ecu isnt logging gear or vehicle speed, that actually does affect some things but its workable.  just an observation real quick as I am reviewing.

I am still playing with the files.  I need to mess with the tvmin (?) and a few other things to get to log gears and speed.  The Wiki also metioned somethings need to be moved around to correspond with my gears, but I can find them in the XDF.

the power pull is missing data. try to grab another.  when it cutting is it abrupt loss of all power or is it fading off?

The throttle is closing.  I can see it when the load/boost gets too high and the throttle postion drops to zero. 

Heres a few more:  I didnt edit these.

I can tell its the throttle slamming shut because My blow off valve goes off every time. I just compared accelerator pedal to the throttle plate and when they were way off I lookded at the load/boost and sure enough, it was way higher than requested.

Logs for today with LC-1 settings corrected:

Seems as if I cant get a break.  Misfiring really bad on cylinder 4 on the first log.

I turned off the interchanged sensor Diag. function.  I keep getting errors for bank one being lean.  Probably not helping with the misfires.

Sorry was burried with work yesterday.  I will take a look at these logs and get back to you.

Its ok.  I had a lot to do yesterday also. 

I keep looking at the logs trying to make sense of them.  Everything looks so eratic. 

I think I fixed a few little things.  I grounded the LC-1 grounds seperate but on the same piece of metal to reduce grounding issues between the heater circuit and the sensor.  I also changed the KRKTE, TVUB, TEMIN and I bumped up the idle torque.  All this seems to have helped stabilize idle and O2 sensor fluctuations.  The O2's are not [pegging +/- 25% at idle now.  

I am going to go get gas and hopefully capture a log or two.

Of course something else had to go wrong.  EPC light was on...Implausable (sp?) signal from the gas pedal.  I figured it would be happen since I left my car uncovered and it rained.  I didnt put the cover back on the ECU like a dummmy and water got down in there.  I had this happen before.  

Anyhow, this is the file with the few tweaks I did.  I will leave primary fuel and timing alone.

I been playing with the Idle torque in my maps.  I have a LWFW and when I free rev, I think the RPMS drop too fast and stalls the car.  I also played with the kfkhfm to get some fuel out at idle load ranges.  I am probably going to change them back, and check the main fueling table. 

On a side note, the MAF straightener came in.  Hopefully this will make some difference.

I am off tomorrow, so I should have lots of time to play around.

Passed emissions.  Going to get it registered and get some real logs soon!   ;D

I have been messing around with the tune little by little.  I think I have a good spot to actually start the major working process now.  Most of the things I have done has been from extensive reading on this forum. 

-raised idle speed and torque (Nefmoto stg3) - best improvement
-better base KRKTE and TVUB (Nefmoto stg3)
-A bit more timing across the board (Marcellus  ;D)
-KFDLULS zero'd out (s4Wiki)

I did a few more minor things that I cannot think of right now.  Right now I am sitting at .2% and .4% at idle on block 32, the other two are 7 and 9% so there is soom room for improvement there.  I havent had any boost cut for a while even with the VGT opening too early.

did you 1.000 out fkkvs and kflf yet?  kfkhfm as well if you are running the 85mm aluminum maf, regardless of sensor.
if not, do this and recenter your krkte/tvub values.

I didint 1.0 either of those.  The FKK was @ .9988 across the board so I left it alone.  The other I just didnt think to change it.  Done and Done.  Thank you!

I am happy to see you cruising along now and it looks like you are learning a lot.  I haven't been able to spend anytime lately with me7 stuff but it looks like warm weather is coming.

I am reading that long lamfa fueling thread over and over again trying to get a understanding if how to dial it in better.  It seems like something easy enough to implement and I kind of understand the reasoning.  I am just too new at this and scared I am going to miss something and have a melt down.

I think the base tune you sent me is set up to go this route, so I would really like to figure it out so I can take advantage of it. 

hey its not as hard as it looks.  have you seen the mbox update i've uploaded?  give me an hour or two and i'll write you a quick exec summary for this thread here...

the file is working off BTS for safety and knock based for primary.  I could also add lamfa (driver requested) but it really isnt needed.

the cars fuel really good off this route, i was able to go drive my car today for about a half hour and it is the fastest its ever been on 91 oct with my latest file which is very similar to yours.

I am flashing my car as we speak with some new krkte and tvub values I just got from the calculator.  Gimme a sec and I will post the tune as it sits right now. 

I was thinking of using the dynamic fueling and timing because of how my turbo is.  With the thing not opening until 15-18psi as you directed the car is a low rpm animal.  I can start off a steep hill in low rpms and the car will boost and go.  The car feels like it has a much larger displacement motor.  You saw the logs.  Only thing changed now I think I have it set to stop at around 22psi.

I went back and forth trying to figure out the VGT.  With the TC eliminated I was able to rev it out and I can actually see the difference of when it opens up.  Spool is hella fast with it closed up to around 7-10psi.  From there the actuator was opening up too fast or too early and spool would flatten and build proportional to RPM.  So lets say 7 psi by 3kish and up to 21 psi very gradually until 6.5k. You were right with the idea of keeping it closed for longer.

This also does not happen at WOT.  I hardly ever go WOT since I dont really need to.  THe few times I have gone flat out...Yikes. 

I have seen the mbox update you uploaded.  I will be looking through it at "work" tomorrow.

What are you doing to dial in your KRKTE and TVUB? 

if your LTFT's are still on, here's what i've developed through my own usage:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=884.msg7596#msg7596

give it a shot and let me know what you think

I already am using it.  I ran my first LTFT numbers through it a couple of days ago and will try it again after my long ride home tonight.

 I think I should leave the setup alone for a little bit.  I have boost piping that likes to come just far enough apart to be a big leak under pressure.  Only reason I caught on to it, I kept hearing a loud hissing noise as I built boost over 10psi.  The turbo wasnt very happy as it screamed trying to make the boost.  Its time I upgrade the intercooler and some of the piping anyhow.  I need to also drill and tap the manifold with a fitting to reroute my brake booster, or a line to a vacuum block that I am just dying to throw in there.  oh yeah, and make an actual pcv/catch can setup so I dont die when I turn the heat on when sitting still.

I just did a bunch of reading on this turbo, and I'm really stoked for the turbo selection!  I'll be watching much more closely to see how this progresses.

Thanks!  

My issues right now are mostly VGT related.  The thing can spool rediculously fast, virtually eliminating lag.  I just have to find that sweet spot.  If it is set up to spool instantly, Until I have an electronic solution for control or a better mechanical one, I feel it is a bit overkill.  Its nice to make a nice clean pass maneuver on the freeway without downshifting, but at the same time I would like a way for it to be that way only when needed.  Maybe a way to have it open under high vacuum,  I dont know yet.  I am toying with the idea of running a vaccum acuator and a boost refernced one. 

I dont know if any of this makes sense.  Its just a bunch of jumbled thoughts in my head, hard to expalin.

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0494-1.jpg)

I had to pull the motor because I am retarded and drop bolts in the transmission and like to jack up the trigger wheel.  Turned lemons into lemonade and decided to clean up the bay some while the flywheel was at Fidanza getting fixed.

Not much tunign wise has been done other than the addition catalyst heating turned off.  I am surely glad Storm Trooper asked that question and got it figured out.  Idle feels a lot better and steady over a long period of idling.  I somehow broke my MBC so I havent been able to get at the actuator for the VGT yet.  Its nice that it spools hella fast, but with it being held to a minimal postion all the time, I am sure overall power is being killed.

God I love your car, so much potential still...

Been thinking about it, let's try to use the vtg in place of the wastegate.  It will take tremendous restraint on your part but we already know you have that with your locked duty cycle map...

Imho I think you should plumb the vtg actuator to the n75 and let the gate just be dead for now.  Let's tune the pid control to run the vtg through its motion and limit boost by increasing ar through out the power band and not all at once like before.

this could be very difficult without precise information and a working PID model...   if anyone can get it done, its snowtrooper, but still check out chapter 3 of this dudes thesis:

http://www.fs.isy.liu.se/Publications/MSc/06_EX_3799_JO_MW.pdf

It is something I thought about seeing how boost stops building when vgt is open.  I guess I could run a heavier spring in the wg.  I really didn't like the idea of a mbc because I felt it would open the vgt too fast when set boost is reached and freak the ecm out again.  I was considering using all sorts of tactics to dampen the actuator like springs.

It can totally be controlled by the n75

a PID is VERY flexible, i strictly believe this to be correct...

I figured it could be

Ready whenever you are. 

Time for the new FMIC
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0519.jpg)

Slowly but surely coming along still:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0521.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0523-2.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0525-2.jpg)

That and I think I have my fuel trims down to about -.8%.  Its nice to have a better sealed up system boost/vac wise.  Still a major WIP though.  VGT is still in a minimal position until I get the actaution figured out.

And a quick pull before the new pipe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmM8G6HHIwA&feature=youtu.be

Getting better, but still needs a lot more tuning.

Today was Interesting.  I was playing with different ways of manually controling the VGT.  I tried to add springs to the Actuator to slow its movemenmt, but when I applied about 15 psi it just shot open.  Damn actuators are pretty strong.  I even tried a spring only and let the drive pressure open the VGT on its own.  It worked this way, but apparently the drive pressure was a bit much for the springs I had and spool was hurt pretty bad.

I finally reinstalled the actuator and connected the N75 to it and left the wastegate without a reference line.  WOW!  now that was nice.  With no changes to my file.  The spool was really smooth, and the boost stopped right at around 17-18 psi.  I guess when the VGT is opne all the way it actually can stop spool and the N75 did an awesome job holding it steady.  It was pretty amazing.  I am going to run a MBC on the wastgate as a security precaution.

Since my wastegate actuator is ~7psi, I think I will be looking at a stg 2 style KFLDRL map.  The N75 is set too low right now and boost isnt meeting requested yet.  I think I can increase the duty cyke on the low end to keep the vgt closed longer and help keep the turbo spooling. 

Log attached.  Comments welcome.

Interesting. So if I read that right, if you were to run the wastegate clamped shut, the VGT clamed as open as it goes, the 2.7t will only be able to spool it to 17 psi by redline?  Have you tried it in that configuration before (wastegate shut, VGT wide open always)?

With no boost reference to my Tial 38mm wastegate the actuation of the VGT vanes have been sufficient enough to control boost...TODAY.  With the VGT held in the closed position boost will ramp up very fast and will keep going until I let off.  We found that out a few pages ago.  On the order of like over 25psi IIRC by 4k-ish before I let off. 

With the VGT open all the way the thing doesnt even start to spool until around 5k.  I Think it was making around 10 psi around 6.5k-ish.  Also, in the stock configuration, the vehicle this turbo is from doesnt use a wastegate.  Boost is regulated by the vanes.  Also all the way closed down can serve as an exhaust brake, which I have come acroos a couple times while trying to adjust the starting point for the VGT. 

When I have the VGT shut tight, the car kind of sounds slightly louder than stock at idle.  That is something I actually like and is what I shoot for when setting the minimum position.  Another benefit of this very small setting is the K03 with a MBC type of spool/ramp up.  I have had it spooling around 2.5k before, but it was very hard to keep it from going to a exhaust brake type of position between shifts, when the actuator slams the VGT closed. 

I didn't know the car that came on stock didn't use a wastegate, hence I was curious of the upper flow limit when all the way open (ie if the motor isn't physically capable of spinning it higher than you want at redline).  Sweet, that'll be cool to run wastegate-less essentially (only wastegate for overboost protection).  I really like this idea, and I hope you find an ideal way to control the VTG.

Glad you are on the right track.

Jib these come on cummins.

Yeah, I looked into them a couple pages back, but I didn't know the cummins didn't use a wastegate.  Big displacement and no wastegate, that's saying something about the size of the turbo lol.

I think they also have the fact that they only rev to like 3k. 

I am trying to figure out my pid mapping.  Do you think I should bump all the values up into around 4.5 k, and taper them off going to the right?  Higher values on the left and smaller to the right? 

I am Trying to keep it closed as long as possible and open it at over 4.5kish and hold 25psi. 

Which specific maps are you talking about?

I think its KFLDRL.  are there any other maps that I should be looking at?

Its getting better.  I am still working on the spool.  The n75 duty cycle is still a bit low in a lot of areas and opening the VGT too soon.  I also think I am pegging the MAF.  See log.

KFLDRL is almost maxed out.  Lowest percentage is 90.  The car feels pretty good.  I am still nto getting it to ramp up the boost fast enought like when I had the vgt locked in one position. 

1st gear kind of sux.  I can only get about 10-15 psi.  2nd is better, the turbo starts spooling pretty early, but doesnt hit the PSI I want until much later 5.5k.  Once or twice accidentally pegged the boost gage.  I guess its not so much the PSI right now its how much that Turbo is flowing.  It pulls really hard until I let off, the boost needle is almost in sync with the RPM needle and things happen pretty quick if I dont watch them.  Good thing about that is most of the time I finally hit about 23-25psi near redline.  3rd gear is the one I have to keep an eye on.  It builds fast and will hit 25psi by like 5k and will continue until I let off. 

I guess any higher lod gear gets the turbo going really good.  Its just 1st-2nd that I have to work on.  I am also leaning towards a boost leak.  I again overt tightened one of my industrial grade t-bolt clamps and it squished the intercoole piping a bit.  Also my fuel trims keep reading rich.  My new intercooler should be in this week, and I will get the charge piping laid it with minimal sillicon.

Any other boost related maps I should be looking at?  Also I max out my MAF what tabes should I look at for that?

great car, but for some reason i find no video's, that is a necessity to posting your single turbo s4 on this forum ;D ;D ;D

second...    ::)

This makes absolutely zero sense

Again.....thank you

EDIT:

I am not a professional tuner, I have very limited experience, and I am learning as I go....as you can see.  I appreciate the help you have given me in the other thread to a point.  If you are getting frustrated that I am not exactly picking up what you are saying, or if you think I am looking for someone to do my file for me, or you dont want to reveal all the tricks of the trade, then just dont post when I ask questions.  No hard feelings either way, but please dont be condescending becasue I am not that way to you.  We all had to start somewhere right?  

I post what I have done, and my reasoning behind why I felt the change was necessary.  If you feel the change was not necessary or I could benefit from taking some other route please say so, and state your reasoning.

Right now I am getting worn out.  As it was eleglantly pointed out to me, I really do not understand the PID control.  ;)  I keep reading the Funk pages regarding the PID, and it is just not clicking yet.  The WIKI gives me a general area as to where I should focus, and days and days of searching this forum and comapringg files have shown me a few areas to look.      

What I have done to this point:
Almost max out the KFLDRL table.  With the values set high here I still wasnt getting the N75 to do what I wanted.  I would log it and I would see that it was responding to the throttle tip in going into a higher demande load area, but wasnt givin me the high duty cycle I wanted.  So, this table was obviously not where all the changes needed to be made.  Something else was limiting or reducing the duty cylce of the N75.  

I was directed to look at the KFLDIMX map, since this one is supposed to limit the Duty Cyle of the N75.  Hopefully I am not misunderstanding this one.  I have been making small changes in the areas indicated by the WIKI, 800-1000 millibar 2500-5000rpms range.  Logging has shown that I am now getting more duty cycle sooner out of the N75 which is great.

Along with making the changes in the DIMX map, I have been lowering the DRL trying to get the duty Cylce to taper back off in the higher Load areas.  I have been playing with the idea of dropping the LDRXYN in the 4200rpm range since at this point the turbo should be fully spooled and neds to start transitioning to the larger AR ratio.  From what I have read and has been recently confirmed, the duty cyle is going to stay high if requested is much higher than actual.  According to my logs my requested is following the RXYN, and I kind of understand the logic as to why the duty cyle is staying so high.  What I am not so sure about is what else will be affcted if I lower the values.

I dont want to mess with the IRL or IOP maps yet becasue I really dont understand how they work together just yet.  I know I can add a percentage to IRL to get more load down low on part throttle/cruise...or so I have read in the several threads regarding the maps.  I know the IOP is an "inverse" map of the IRL, but I dont really know what to do to keep that map happy just yet.  Also, what other maps use input from theses two and need to be altered alongside.  At this point I dont think either of theses two maps are what I need to mess with just yet.

All I am trying to do right now is to get the N75 to, not gradully ramp up the duty cycle, but go 95% almost instantly.  With my 7PSI wastegate actuator the turbo has enough energy to start pushing the VGT open without the actuator controlling it.  I guess I am kind of trying to get it to be as close to a MBC operation as possible.  Normally closed to block off much pressure as possible and help the actuator hold the VGT closed.  I also think that how large of an A/R the VGT opens the hot side to, boost can be regulated without using a wastgate.  I will worry about that part after I get the spool charectresitics dialed in.  

I can actually feel when the N75 kicks into high DC.  It feels like the car has a bit of lag, slowly building boost, and then when all of a sudden she just takes off when the duty cycle jumps.  I know from when I had the VGT locked down in a minimal postion thath the hting can spool early, and build boost really fast.  Now I am trying to control it with the N75 to get as close to the same response as before, but now actually get the benefit of having the the VGT transiong to the larger AR.  I am hoping for a really broad power band and I know that controlling the VGT will be critical in getting the job done.  

I just have to figure out how to get it done.    

 

  

I have been riding around with the my Innovate LM-1 hooked up for the past couple of days to verify my AFRs.  I like the Lm-1 becasue it is a standalone Wideband system. It isnt affected by grounds, power, or any of the other issues that seem to plague the LC-1.  My AFR have been verified to this poin to be where they should be at WOT.

I am going to leave MY KRKTE as is for now.  My Idle trims are usuaully +/-.8% so I assume my TVUB is satisfactory. 

"KFKHFM - fix up individual rich/lean areas, and WOT fueling issues."  -S4Wiki

Is this the direction I should go to clean up my LTFT?  I watch my STFT while driving and they are all over the place.  I logged them this morning shortly after I cleared the LTFT to see if I can get an indication as to which areas I should focus on.  Its not a true representation of the entire fueling map, but I do spen 90% of my time on the freeway and would like to get this load area cleaned up.  My LTFT start off really good....less than 5% for a long time and then for some reason they just shoot up, and the banks start fighting each other (one goes really + and the other goes opposite) and the motor starts misfiring, and runs poorly.

I do believe the adaptive values are helping keep the fueling in order.  I switched them off yesterday while I was driving and the AFR went from around 14.3-14.9 LTFT on at cruise to 13.4-15.6 with them off.

KFKHFM:  all 1.0001 until I dialed in the KRKTE
lower the values = lean out the area
raise the values = enrich

any thing else I should look into?

I'll try to be a bit more constructive.

First thing to figure out is your fueling... in particular why your two banks are reporting such different STFTs
UNTIL you fix your fueling, dont bother worrying about boost. ONE thing at a time. NEVER try to fix several things at once.

Perhaps you have a bad injector, or valve, or fuel filter/pump/pr.

At some point, your LTFTs and STFTs should be more or less the same between the banks.

Once you get that problem fixed, you want to use KRKTE/MLHFM/TVUB to get your LTFTs more or less zero in both idle and part throttle regions.

Once you get your LTFTs stable, you can move on to boost, or try to clean up the STFTs. The biggest thing to remember about logging STFTs and using them to set up KFKHFM, is that you really only want to pay attention to values when load/rpm is stable. If either is moving around, your STFT isn't very useful.

So pick a gear and load point, aim for that, and hold it. Let it settle. Take a peek at your STFT. Rinse, repeat for different load/rpm combinations. Do corrections in KFKHFM. Obviously, this is much easier to do on a dyno than on the road.

Get all that working, come back, and i'll try to help with your boost issues.

What is used to calculate stft?  In the log I did this Morning the trims were all over the place, bit the banks were pretty close together.  I will post the log in a hour or so.  I am on my way home now. 

STFTs are in VCDS block 33 (iirc)

Yeah, that's where they are when you are logging them in VCDS, but what is the ECM using to figure them out?  Is it reading the O2 and MAF? 

STFTs are short term fuel trim based on narrow band O2 to correct fueling to get lambda=1

That's what I was afraid of.  I only run one sensor in the downpipe after the turbo.  My LC-1 is giving the ecm two inputs, but its reading from the one sensor.  It just isn't making any snse why it would split the banks.  The narrowband voltages are
almost exact at all times on all logs taken.  The correction factors in the stft are also pretty close at all times also.   

Heres a quick log at idle showing typically what I have been seeing. 

I really wish I could find a way to get one sensor input to trim both banks.  I think that would really help.  Either that or somehow figure ou a way to get the two banks seperate again.  I really dont think the O2 sensors would last pre-turbo.  I remember when I was going try and have AMD tune the car, Jason suggested I put the O2 behind the turbo for this reason.

I'm not sure this actually matters in the end.  What matters is the actual AFR, which as you have told us, you are already getting.
Two options I see here:
a)  needs a way to stitch together the wideband and logging data
b)  use the technique nyet is suggesting by figuring out where during a clean run you are going lean/rich w/e.

my elaboration on his suggestion:
1)  pick a gear:  3rd
2)  pick a minimum and maximum rpm.  start with 1500 to 5500.  i promise it won't be clean anyways so don't push it.
3)  pick a level of aggressiveness.  i'd recommend doing what you consider to be:  20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100
4)  take these 5 pulls and gather the time-series paths including the STFT-data.
5)  post the results here and we can help you modify the appropriate table.
6)  change the table and re-do the logging and see what changed with the variable in question:  STFT.

get it?  we have to trace the shit out of the problem and figure out how to extrapolate a fix.

Recap so I am sure:

5 third gear pulls from 1500 to 5000rpms.

Vary throttle input/aggressiveness from run to run.

Log with ECUX ? 

you dont want wot pulls for adjusting stfts

you are working on a steady state (fixed rpm/load)

what calibration procedure do you recommend - in this case?

I got a little distracted today:
 (http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0530-1.jpg)
 (http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0534-1.jpg)
 (http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0535-1.jpg)
 (http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0538-1.jpg)

Tomorrow I am going in to get some more aluminum welding done. 

I will flash my fkkvs and klfhfm back to all 1.00 and try and get some steady state logs and some gradual varying aggressiveness logs.

I feel like such a dumb ass.  I was interpreting the O2 voltages ass backwards.  .1 is 14.7 and 1.0 is stupid rich.   :-\  

It's bedtime now, but in the a.m. I have a lot of logs to review.

EDIT To ADD:  was wrong yet again

According to the mfg, these are standard values for "most" stock narrow band sensors:

Voltage   AF            Lambda
0.0-0.1   17.0:1      1.16
0.1-0.2   16.0:1      1.09
0.2-0.3   15.5:1      1.05
0.3-0.4   15.0:1      1.02
0.4-0.5   14.7:1      1
0.5-0.7   14.6:1      0.99
0.6-0.7   14.5:1      0.99
0.7-0.8   14.2:1      0.97
0.8-0.9   13.2:1      0.9
0.9-1.0   12.5:1      0.85



 

I was just trying to see if I can even hold a steady load under normal driving conditions.  Looking at the ECUX log, I cant see a way to track STFT.  I will have to get three groups lined up to log via VCDS.  I am thinking block 033 STFT, block 032 LTFT and I need one that shows rpm and load.

 

dude you need to move to ME7L...

Explain?

no for logging STFTs he's better off with VCDS.

he doesn't even need to log.

just hit a rpm/load point and glance at it.

Oh, the me7 logger. 

yes, regardless you should ditch ecux or you will never figure out your wastegate issues.

the problem is, since you are running an external wastegate, you're going to have to either learn to program a PID, or just run open loop wg control.

i think he should run the me7 tables totally open and get a legit variable boost controller like those diesel turbo tuning companies sell...

the other option, and nyet probably understand this well:  he needs to change the Integration variable in the PID to reflect the "expected psi versus engine rpm."  in other words you need to make a model of your expected PSI path and then vector multiply that path times the RPM-related airflow of our engine...   otherwise you'll never have the correct target for the PID to swing off...

I have been in contact with Fleece performance (company that sells the controller) and they still havent made anything universal.  Their current system runs on the stock truck's CAN-BUS or whatever they use.  

It would be nice to have full control though.  All the way open at cruise to drop EGT, closed at idle for noise reduction, partially open until need for fast spool.  

I am working on learning the PID programming.  Right now its just trial and error and a ton of reading and asking questions.  Thanks for letting me know I am not doing it right though and pointin me in a better direction.  I need that. I actaully want this thing to be properly set up to do what I want it do do, not a big giant work around to trick the ECM into doing what I want.

Either way, if his target boost is past the MAP, he'll end up running openloop wg anyway, and PID programming will be a big waste of time ;)

Marcellus: do you plan to run your turbo past 2550 mBar?

Map limit?  Yes.  So its a big waste? What should I use instead? 

Set your requested boost to max, and tune the last row of your wg linearization table to the wg profile you want.

Like this?

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/likethis.jpg)

You're going to have TERRIBLE part throttle response with that map.

In particular, you should NEVER go from a higher value to a lower value for a given input RPM over a range of non-linearized wg inputs.

The whole map or the last row?

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/likethisone.png)

Its is a rough example just see if I am getting what you are saying.

You really want to have *some* response to the PID in operating ranges where the req boost will be under the MAP...

I hate clamps. 

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0539-1.jpg)

This?

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/likethisonehere.png)

No. And all that 95% at low rpms also makes no sense.

A perfectly linear WG system would be 10 in all 10 column cells, 20 in all 20 column cells, etc.

you should *start* with that, and work out what areas are non-linear.

Honestly, though I feel you are really out of your depth. I'm not sure there is an easy way to explain to you what this table does. Do you have a math or engineering background? That might help me figure out how to explain it to you based on what background you have (through analogies).

Then, the next step would be to talk to the WG manufacturer to provide information about it's response characteristics.

I am sorry man.  I am a CNC programmer/machinist/Tooling guy.

I thought that since I set theRXN to max that it was only going to pull from the last column.  I figured the rest of the table was irrelevant at that point, or thats how I interpreted what you said.  Also, I thought the 95% at low rpms was what I wanted.   Am I wrong in thinking that at 95% the N75 is pretty much blocking the signal?  Then, at higher rpms the duty cycle should loosen up to stabilize the boost? 


 I guess this is the reason why I just went MBC last time I was trying to dial in my car.  This time I would really like to figure this out.

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/likethisoneherehuh.png)

FWIW, I wasnt trying to deviate to far from my base tune and the few tunes I have been looking through:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/basetune.png)

At low rpms the PID should be sending 95% already to the INPUT of that table.


Yes.

Look, before you do ANYTHING to that table, do you understand what the two inputs to that table are?

One is RPM. The other... what do you think it is?

That linearization table is a mess.

Duty cycle?

I flashed my last file with the fully linear.   I 100% agree, almost everything I thought I knew about the PID was wrong.  Well in my application because thats all I can really speak on.  Right now I am reading through this thread:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=517.0

I cant seem to find information on this

"What I did:

set CWMDAPP = 8

set all cells in KFLDRAPP = 0"

Why? What do those changes do?  I cant even find CWMDAPP.



Also, I played with the KFKHFM.  Right now I can only fine tune the 30-60% between 2000 and 3500rpm range.  I try and log the car on the freeway around my usual cruise speeds.  With the 1.8t 5speed I am around 3k @60mph.  The LTFT was showing that the car was pulling around 8%-10%.  STFT were all over the place.  

I did some subtractions in the above indicated ranges and it seems to have helped.  My LTFT was 0.....I am really skeptical about that reading though.  The whole trip the car didnt start misfiring on accel like it would when the trims were acting up.  It was smooth the whole time.  Also, to note my slew of DTC's didnt show up this morning either. HMMMM.  

I am starting to think my issue is the fact that both banks arent read seperately.  I keep looking through my logs and I see the banks trimming back and forth.  From the pattern I see, it appears one bank enriches, and the other bank leans out.  Sinec they both are getting their readings from the same sensor in the same spot, if one enriches, the richer mixture is also read by the input to the other bank and it leans out. Vice versa.  I have seen this battle go on until one bank is sometime +25% and the other -25%.


 I think my problems are because the enrich and lean out is bank specific, but where its reading from is reading the cummulative AFR. I either need to get my STFT dead on somehow, or figure out a way tell the ecm that its only reading from one sensor. I dont know If I am explaining my thoughts well.

Log from this morning.  Fifth gear, highway speeds.  I made a column that averaged the trims, and highlighted the load and rpm areas that *should*? need the correction.

  

You just need to get fuel and in turn stft spot on and not run LTFTs, that is what I have settled on.

I agree 100%.  What side affects are there not running LTFT?  how do you turn it off, other than in VCDS?

BTW look through this file, it should have some stuff to.help you.

unplug your evap

How do you totally code out evap so I don't get codes?

Current state of tune.  Right now I am dialing in the STFT.  Boost comes on pretty good, still not sure of how to get the N75 to open the VGT open all the way to slow boost.  I actually need to see it in action to confirm.  Boost climbs really fast and does not stop.  I am still trying to figure out the PID.

Try a pid duty cycle up top of something real low, like 10 or even 5

what maps are you using for you STFT tuning?  whats your techinque for tuning?  please elaborate...

Starting around the 4500rpm range?

I am using the KFKHFM map to dial in my STFT.

I have been doing several pulls from a low rpm up to about 5500 rpms in several gears, trying to keep the load increasing as steadily as possible.  I also been doing constant rpm/load logs to help me dial it in for my daily commute.  I then take the readings for both banks in block 33, average them together and try to decipher them.  I look for areas that are rich or lean that spreads across a consistent stretch of rpm/load.  I then kind of tweak the highest out of spec cell, and slightly tweak a few surrounding cells to smooth it out.  "rinse and repeat".. ;)

Am I on the right track?  Better way of doing it?  I did it this way when the car was stroker 4cyl with Maestro.  One thing I really miss about Maestro is the historgram.  It was really easy to dial in the fuel since it actually laid your log out over your map, and you can actually see how far off your map was versus how it was running. without having to look at a seperate log and try and trace the load/rpm/STFT.   

nah nah, sounds legit.   i'm trying to develop a matlab routine to automatically parse pulls and derive corrections from such information.  have you tangibly seen your STFT's go down?  can you show some examples?

Yes the trims have gone down.  I can definately tell the difference in how the car runs.  At idle with the fueling getting dialed in, I have been able to lower the idle speed from ~940rpms back down to a stable 800rpms with minimal misfirin on the Deka 630cc injectors.  

Hard part for me is identifying what is happenning.  I try to do slow gradual pulls to a certain RPM becasue I have noticed that the STFT sometimes dont keep up if I accel to fast.  Usually they will show up as a ~ +10% add on the STFT.  I have to weed all that stuff out, or I will end up chasing my tail.

Also I have to remember to let off the gas completely when I need to decel while logging.  Otherwise the trims have been a bit off and show as a negative.  When I let off the gas all the way it shows up in the logs and sticks out.  

I will have to dig through my logs to show you about where I started, and where I am now STFT wise.  Right now I am dialing in areas that are about 7-9% out, I started with areas that where ~20% out. I am only getting the areas up to about 120 load done right now.  I dont really want to mess with the fueling much past that until I get the boost settled and can make a safe 23-24psi pull farther than 5500rpms.  If I am not careful I can easily peg the boost gage.  It happened last nite, and horrified the crap outta me when I saw the timing pull from that log.  I have since dialed the timing way down in the high load areas to help save my motor just in case.

The Log from last night:  

I think I just found out why my fueling took a crap on me out of the blue.  My flow straightener came dislodged and was sitting crooked resting against the MAF sensor.  I put a couple dabs of goop on it to hold it in place,  and did a few little tweaks to my file and the fueling has been holding consistent again.  I also rerouted the open port from the N75 back into the intake just after the MAF.  I figured it was probably bleeding off metered air, and it was plumbed this way stock.  Idle STFT are holding pretty solid.  The banks are pretty close...good enough to dial in.  

The car still doesnt to be held in one range for too long.  Eventually the trims will start to go their seprate ways.  I tried turning off the trims with raising the values in RLLRUN, but I was unsure if I had the map defined properly since I just copied it from the Gbox XDF.  Raising the values did seem to eliminate the ECM control of the O2, but with all the other issues I was having, I didnt feel comfortable pushing it with my jacked up fueling map.  I felt I needed the ecm to correct some just in case I did something wrong, or if the ecm started to dump or pull a bunch of fuel like it has done before.

Once I find the actual info to define the RLLRUN map I would like to slowly raise the load little by little one rpm band at a time, disabling STFT for small sections for fueling and really dial in the KFKHFM.

I also need to figure out which map to tweak to get the "increasing loads" type of fueling a little better.  The fuel trims are showing that the ECM is adding up to about 10% at times on throttle...picking up speed.  Steady state is pretty solid.

Lastly, I am still overboosting.  I dont think there is enough AR with the VGT fully open to stop or slow spool once it gets spinning.  I am still trying to dial in the PID and think I am getting a small idea on the areas that I need to adjust.  It is really nice to be able to tune the response of the turbo, versus just allowing the VGT do whatever.  

...AND a log.
  

Thanks to you guys and posting all that useful tuning info, I now have to replace the tranny.  I was trying to do a quick 1,2,3 log and blew third gear up.  I am still not ready or willing to go 6 speed yet, so I am just going to swap in the 2.8 5 speed.  Hopefully the taller gearing will help MPG and maybe stretch out first and second.

Any way I can help contribute to that?  Such a tool would be very useful, and I'm more than willing to help in any way I can.

I am reworking my MAF setup:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0088.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0083-1.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0087.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0098.jpg)


I milled a bit off of the spare housing I had and shaved all the extra bosses and crap off of it.  I was trying to shorten it up, but its still a really tight fit.

With that work being done, I am still have some things to figure out.
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0104.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0106.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0105.jpg)

I am considering relocating the brake booster closer to the charge piping and routing the filter/intake at the end of the bend I am holding up in the picture.  Do you guys think the bend being so close to the MAF will screw crap up?  I am running a flow straightener.

I finally got time in my schedule to up grade the fuel system a bit:
IE rails, 034 FPR adapter, fittings and connectors I bought and modified and had some welded.

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0175.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0211.jpg)


Passengers side rail:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0209-1.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0210-1.jpg)

Drivers side rail:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0206.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0208-1.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0207-1.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0212-1.jpg)

My boy Mikey at ASP putting it together for me:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0213-1.jpg)

Some finish work:  polished fittings, polished FPR adapter.  The black got old in just a couple of days.
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0214.jpg)

After a week of modifying fittings, and planning on where to place components routing the lines I ended up with this:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0222.jpg)

That turbo is an he351 correct? Keep an eye on it, the vgt's (vanes) on those tend to stick, generally closed. Looks like an interesting project.

Yes its a HE351-VE.  I took a pencil grinder and clearanced the vanes a little bit to give them a bit more room with the elevated EGT.

I had a unfortunate event that gave me a bunch of time to do some freshening up this week.

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0228.jpg)

I was going to powdercoat my vcs when I had them off this week, but you can't see them with the y-pipe and engine covers on, so I just cleaned the 12 years of grease off of them. Clean up that wiring!

On another note-is that RTV I see between the throttle body and intake? Remove it, and get a gasket! That stuff doesn't survive fuel vapor.

Good luck!

I decided to machine my own coil pack adapters and get rid of the 034 pieces.  The only real difference is the countersunk holes and a bit better finish.  

I can't wait to see this beast running

More changes:  I just ordered up a HPX PMAS, aluminum flange, and pigtail.  Hopefully I will be able to get blow through to work.  I cant stand how my intake is set up, and blow through is how I origanally planned the project.

UPDATE:

My friends at ASP are redoing my up and down pipes new wastegate and dump, new aluminum coolant tank and a surge tank/catch can combo
ASP making me some new goodies:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0695.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0698.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0699.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0700.jpg)

Progress before closing the shop today:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0701.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0702.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0703.jpg)

Downpipe tomorrow, and I need to decide if I will recirc the WG or dump it.

More:

Made my own V-band flange to start the downpipe with
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0704.jpg)

The guys mocking up my downpipe
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0705.jpg)

Almost done
Needs some repositioning for the wastegate retoute
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0707.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0708.jpg)

Downpipe getting the seal of approval:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0712.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0715.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0720.jpg)

We are almost done:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0721.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0722.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0723.jpg)

Charge piping modified, all hot pipes redone, last on list are the tanks for surge, catch can and coolant.

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0726.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0728.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0727.jpg)

catch can/surge tank done tonight:

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0732.jpg)

the legit ruggedness of your setup is jaw-dropping.  great work!

I dont even know what that means...... ;D


(thanks!)

I think he called you fat bro.

J\K. Very nice.

Updates via pictures:

Because of this:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/551992_10151316096610770_444339390_n_zpsd31c658e.jpg)

I got all of this:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0917_zps0cbd3cbc.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0925_zps36a43234.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0926_zps2e4693c9.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0927_zps5fb1ef94.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0947_zpscf46b446.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0873_zps87756c75.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0973_zps4487e350.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0973_zps4487e350.jpg)

2.7 crank polished up before you ask:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0994_zpsfc788b47.jpg)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG0997_zps4429cd07.jpg)
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG1002_zps0189dddf.jpg)

To be honest, I'm surprised it held up that long.
Nothing to do with the hardware, more rather you running lambda 1 at leaner and huge amounts of boost at the early stages...

Thanks..... ??? 

I dont even know what you mean by "running lambda 1 at leaner and huge amounts of boost at the early stages".  Elaborate.

It is unfortunate, but you are probably thinking of my first motor.  That one definately showed signs of fueling and timing issues.  This motor, when taken apart was still very nice.  Piston tops were pristine with very little carbon, spark plugs were brownish...all six...

Ah, you're on the third motor now.
I thought it was still the first one...

I just remember towards start of the thread I was looking at some logs and wondering "hmm, I wonder how long this engine will still be in one piece after that".

i love this project.  very much looking forward to a forged bottom end.... this car's gonna make retarded power.

btw...   what IM are you running?  is it the stock AHA/ATQ Plastic Intake mani?  also, what throttle body?

Agreed, I did all sorts of bad things to the first one.  Lean, too much boost, timing was whack.  The second one was a lot better on the tune, but I over did it chasing FATS times.  On that last run shown above I had finally got the fueling to follow damn near spot on, boost was doing what I told it to do, and I was slowly adding in the timing.  I believe this run was at about 27PSI.   

I thought for sure since there are S4's running 3.0 and less on stock bottom end that I still had room to go.  I didnt really take into account the differences between the S4 Third gear.  From what I calculated my car just wont be as fast as a S4 in third gear even if everything else was exactly the same.  I am still on a 5 speed from a 2.8.

Well, the motor is going together with some stock 2.8 heads this time around.  I am trying to convince the shop to help with a modded intake mani to match the 2.8, or build a new one entirely.  I would like to get ahold of a HEMI-ish throttle body, but since I am self tuning/learning, I dont want to get into it right away.  I am still kind of sketchy as to which maps need to be altered and how.  I have been researching that part of the tune for quite a while now. 

You shouldn't break stock s4 rods at 27 psi, so something else must have been at fault at some point.
It's on the limit, but deffo should not snap like that.

I really think that depends on the setup.  Sure 27psi on a low flowing turbo might not break rods, but about 27pis from a turbo than can actually flow a ton of air?  What about a turbo that can spool relatively fast and flow a ton of air?  I mean, look at all the guys recently posting with stock bottom ends blowing the rods right out of the motor on less boost when they upgrade to something bigger than a ko4.  At what point have you seen hardware failures?  What in the logs should I have been looking at incase I have missed something? 

Maybe you are right, but what else is there to break rods and not show damage elsewhere?

Was the previous attached log the one from the engine failure?  If not, what were the exact conditions under which it failed.
I think you are right regarding the flow and potential of that turbo...

This is one big myth about turbos and flow.
A pressure ratio is a pressure ratio, regardless of turbo.
The only thing with a bigger turbo and bigger hotside is, that there is less backpressure so your VE is somewhat improved and you can run more timing as well because of less backpressure as well as having lower IAT's at the same pressure ratio, but this is negated by w/m injection.

The reason your rods broke is knock, plain and simple. You don't go into high CF's when you're on rod limit, period. You should run 0 CF.
If you look at in-cylinder pressure during normal operation and knock, there's a huge spike during knocking combustion, and this spike is what bends and breaks rods.

Quick update:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG1054_zps5ae8e877.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/IMAG1054_zps5ae8e877.jpg.html)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG1074_zpsa94d3ca6.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/IMAG1074_zpsa94d3ca6.jpg.html)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG1078_zpsa668cf25.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/IMAG1078_zpsa668cf25.jpg.html)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG1081_zps32e54d75.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/IMAG1081_zps32e54d75.jpg.html)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/IMAG1087_zps6e090aa8.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/IMAG1087_zps6e090aa8.jpg.html)

Those outer main studs seem to stick out a lot further than other's I've seen.   Maybe it's just the angle or BEL block is different?         

Nah, its all my fault.  I ordered the same length studs for when I thought I was going to run my APB block.  The BEL has different length studs.  Instead of trying to return them to 034, I just decided to run with them. 

Ah, got it.   

Can't wait to see what this setup is capable of!

Bottom end waiting for the heads:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/20130701_145359_zps976e3407.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/20130701_145359_zps976e3407.jpg.html)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/20130815_192207_zpsab3fe59f.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/20130815_192207_zpsab3fe59f.jpg.html)

Work and life got in the way of my fun.....Should be done this week upcoming.

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/20130820_192141_zpsba4af972.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/20130820_192141_zpsba4af972.jpg.html)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/20130822_185614_zps33871caf.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/20130822_185614_zps33871caf.jpg.html)

Crew love:
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/20130822_185632_zps93fe9ab7.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/20130822_185632_zps93fe9ab7.jpg.html)

Almost...Almost

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/20130829_191005_zpsbc25fb71.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/20130829_191005_zpsbc25fb71.jpg.html)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/20130829_190936_zps0c457cd2.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/20130829_190936_zps0c457cd2.jpg.html)

(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo43/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/20130829_190952_zps8e97711f.jpg) (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/SpeedWorksAutoTuning/media/20130829_190952_zps8e97711f.jpg.html)