NefMoto

I can't seem to get my zwout to part ways with zwsol at idle and low load part throttle. Zwsol is also demanding -8 degrees at idle, so, unless I change min ignition time to force zwout, it's idling ATDC.

I've been reading for months and trying things with ARMD, IRL, IOP, ZWOP. I've looked at ZUE and MDZW and traced it back but I can't seem to find where zwsol values come from. Also tried obvious things that did not work like KFMRES/K and KFZW/2

None of that makes sense, you shouldn't be modifying any of those to do what you want. If idle timing is not doing what you expect, you should be restoring more things to stock until it is fixed, not modifying them further from stock.

Otherwise, it is a hw problem. I think your philosophy here is completely backwards.

Did that as well. Flashed stock file only changes being MLHFM, TVUB, KRKTE.
For 550cc ev14 and 3” maf.

Zwout ended up being around 7 degrees +-5-10 degrees or so.

Came back to the car a few days later, logged, back down to -8 degrees.
This is all after pressure testing to 50 psi, every gasket and hose being fresh. Turbocharger being RTV’ed shut. Individually tested all coilpacks and sparkplugs on bench. Then replaced all of them for the hell of it any way. Twice. I replaced every sensor with genuine oem audi/vw. Twice, just for the hell of it. I have no DTC’s or CEL’s. No soft codes or hard codes.
I’ve called a dozen “pro” tuners locally. All of them either only do box tunes or said they werent interested.
 The only other thing to do is throw the motor in the trash.

Any ideas?

That points to a physical issue that fundamentally can't be solved by modifying maps *unless you are doing that for diagnosis to narrow down the root mechanical/electrical cause*.

You're going to have to either diagnose it the old fashioned way (replacing parts) which it looks like you've already done, or the hard way, which is finding ram locations and diagnosing via logging the entire ignition path.

Note that most mechanics do not debug mechanical/electrical issues that way, but it may be your only choice.

Ok see you in many months. Gotta learn IDA Pro.

Did you turn off CAT heating?

I was going to say, is this something expected in during warmup or some torque reserve condition?

Perhaps you have a bad clutch switch or ac compressor sensor, or maybe an o2 heating issue.

I currently possess and have put into the car a total of 13 clutch switches. Brand new and otherwise. Broken apart and inspected. Plus, i’ve logged clutch condition. It’s recognizing the switch. zwout follows zwsol at all times at idle. Well past cat heating. But yes FKHABMN is 0 and LAKH (lambda influence from catalysts heating) is neutralized.

Possibly o2 heating issue? I have no idea what to look for in data to quantify that. I’ve put 5 oem Wideband o2 sensors in. All exhibit the same behavior. Same with rear o2’s.

All kfmres/k/nl/kh/sta maps are oem. But at one point, i did flatten them all to the same value to try and see if that changed things. It got worse. Then when i went back to stock, it shot back to 5 deg BTDC. It did not stay that way. Same thing. came back a week later, back down to -8.


Just took a look at the oldest log i possess. The car, at that time had no emissions equipment and a cone filter. All else being OEM. -5 DEGREES IDLE....ATDC. It was idling ATDC on a factory file.

I hate this fucking car.

Did you try to put 0 in CWKONABG
See if there is any change. If you already didn't try that

It has been changed to 0 for some time.

Is it possible then that it is expected?

It is but many people, including yourself have said aim to idle the car at 5 degrees btdc and 20-30% load.

aside from that, zwout does not follow zwgru in the idle regions via kfzw, i currently have no control over idle ignition timing.

On top of that, it swings alot. +-5-7 degrees. I have no clue if this is normal based on sampling individual cylinders or what.

Also, the idle rpm is surging which is the real issue. I’m trying to track down whats responsible for that.

Timing is not a problem
Imo it's a result of compensation excessive torque at idle
Is it stock flywheel installed?
Is the AC turned on (or ecu thinks it is)
Also check power steering sensor, AC high pressure sensor etc
30% load and 800rpm idle it's too high for me
 20-25% should be fine

That is an idea i have considered but have not gone down that path yet.
Flywheel is single mass g60. Steel, heavy, but not as heavy as a dual mass. I think its 25 lbs. aprox 3-5 lbs lighter. Give or take.

Perhaps, because the engine is a 1.9L, the 1.8 maps are expecting less actual torque at idle...? I’d have figured changing to the rs4 values would solve this. I converted to rs4 irl, iop, wop. It did not solve.

AC is off via button, i have not logged the variable yet. I will see if i have it. There is a definitive change in feel of drive when i turn the AC on. Otherwise, i have not logged any AC Based data.

Power steering pressure sensor was actually removed. I installed a braided pressure line kit that did not have a provision for it. I BELIEVE, that my earliest data logged did indeed have the oem sensor in place at the time. Does anyone know what module is responsible for receiving data from this sensor?

Is there a torque reserve maps for power steering? Is it any more complicated than that? Is there a whole module devoted to PS?

How to people tune for a complete power steering delete? Compensation for the lack of parasitic loss.

Yes there are module"s" / maps dedicated for that, I cant remember the names exactly now, look at the FR's.

MRESSL - moment reserve At Power steering

set MRESSL to 0, made no difference. Moving on.
According to the wiki,


My mibas (at idle) is either on or off. 100 or 0 (3 times every second sometimes). Miszul is set to 99.22. So that means mibas is going above miszul 3 times a second....
This doesn't seem right. Is it?


mizsolv is 0 at idle at all times. it does not follow the 100,0 swings of mibas. Mifa fluctuates around 8.5-8.9 (so it is above mizsolv). misolv is 0 as well....so I suppose I could say mizsolv is following misolv....?

....mizsolv isnt following mibas (which, according to the wiki, seems like torque intervention.). It is following misolv (which, according to the wiki, seems like torque intervention..) but it's not following mifa (which, according to the wiki, if it's torque intervention....it should? Is mifa/misolv an either, or thing?)

Either way, a while ago, I raised KFMIZUFIL/KFMIZUOF to 100, it idled the same but also threw the ecu into some sort of aggressive limp mode where the ASR and EPC light went on. So I put those back to stock.

I put the IRL, IOP and WOP/2 values in from a 551K (which weren't all that different at idle.) That was a random idea that didnt work...

Is IOP intentionally too high from factory to apply torque intervention at steady states?

b_zwvz and b_zwvs are both turning off under load changes but on at all steady states including idle.
My understanding of ZUE is zwout can either follow zwbas or zwsol as an output?
Can anyone make this clear for me or provide an alternative idea?

The wiki describes part/wot behavior. at idle misolv should be 0 because you're not requested any load :)

idle control happens using mibas and the idle PID along with torque reserve stuff.

you'll have to look at the idle control part of the FR.

pretty sure messing with IRL/IOP et al isn't going to help you since you aren't requesting any torque via pedal.

Thank you for clearing that up. Yes. Kfped torque request is 0.  Understood.

Ok. Do you know what idle control module mibas enters into?

Edit: zeroing MRESSL made the car backfire aggressively on every upshift. I have to log but i’m pretty sure ignition output is something silly like -8. It only happens when in neutral though. This car has so many problems i really have no idea how to solve them all.

Also, can someone confirm mibas_w should be either 0 or 100 fluctuating as it does in that log?

More questions: is KFZWOP/2 colloquially “MBT timing?”

Quote from phila_dot:

What does == mean?

Also, being a noob, i have very little reference for what i’m shooting for other than “make car run good, durr.” Watching HP academy stuff (standalone, haltech). Idle on a lot of their cars seems to be +-3 rpm at max. I’d like to have this level of precision and fine tune with all variables (load, torque, AFR, rpm, ignition.)
I don’t feel able to move on to pushing anything into the “performance zone” of tuning before figuring all of these issues out first.

Also, i wish i could contribute more. I don't know enough to give back, i feel.