NefMoto

Hey guys.
I really want to be self sufficient when it comes to tuning and such.
Nothing crazy just coding out emissions and basic fine tuning.
I find the main hurtle is defining maps.
Even if you have the time and ambition its very difficult to get started.
I'm wondering if someone could show even one example of how to defining a map.

The most common approach is to use a predefined map and .bin and compare to your .bin in question.
A few simple screen shots of this comparison and naming would go a long way in teaching others interested in
finding their maps.

If one of your guru's would be kind enough to put a simple guide together with a example or two, I think
it would go a long as in the community.

Thanks guys...
 ;)

There is no simple guide to this.
It's what separates the wannabes from the greats.

Some of the maps you will be able to find by comparing hex.
Some you will be able to find by trial and error.
But unless you understand how to disassemble the binary and read machine code to see where things are looked up, you will never find many single value things or spend a stupid amount of time searching for them. Especially if you do not have a similar binary with an available damos.

I can't really post pictures as I haven't found the print screen function on a mac VM

Anyway

If you have a good know definition similar to the map you want to define then you can easily use MTX's map analyser to overlay the 2 maps, slide the maps till they line up and then read off the new address.

For instance typically the 1.8t me7.5 ecus are very similar, there is 018CB file fully defined ( with the odd mistake) and you can use that to compile your new definition file by the method described above, I would imagine that you could do something very similar with winols to overlay 2 maps.

Like most things, once you get the hang of it, it's actually not that hard, and once you know what a map looks like you don't need an overlay to find it. Problem comes though the variables as they all tend to be 0-1-2-3 etc and when you have a run of 20 or so in a line it's hard to match them up.

down load map analayser and give it ago..

sigh. its not like we're developing a fucking cure for cancer here.

lol

and thats what will stop people asking stuff on here , Anytime anyone posts a question ,  he gets a snide comment about being a newbie , this place is turning into vortex , since a couple of guys found out Tony has went missing , they are running a mock in here .

jim

This has nothing to do with Tony.

It has to do with how the tuner industry self-selects for raging egomaniacs.

prj has contributed far more than most. He feels like the noobs don't properly appreciate it. And the noobs feel like he's too demanding of worship.

Neither want to budge. What do you EXPECT the result is going to be?

Me? I never expect gratitude for anything I do. It makes my life much easier. I've long stopped expecting everything around me to change. The only thing I can do is watch my own behavior.

i think the self destructing fact is that back several years ago NONE of this information was available. no matter where you looked.

you had to be part of a very tight niche circle to gain any of this

its a little hard to just give it up like that when youve spent YEARS learning what you know.
tony had a great idea but the downside is most people want to take advantage of it.

its like that on lots of boards i visit. you spend years there working with the hardware and software. then someone that has never touched whatever it is theyre working with pops on and just expects someone to give them the answer. its a very delicate balance.


[oh crap, sorry man, i hit modify instead of reply - i tried to restore as much of your post as I could but i lost some of it :( - nyet]

Speaking of not getting any credit, I wonder when that changed :P


Yes. A tight circle of insufferable, insecure, vain, petty assholes.


BOO FUCKING HOO. I am sick and tired of being told this is a problem. I simply do not sympathize in the least. There is nothing to give up. I have no idea why there such a huge sense of personal ownership in information that wasn't theirs to begin with. None of those pricks invented (let alone wrote) ERCOS or Motronic.


It's only a downside if you are an insufferable, selfish, vain, narcissistic prick. Did i mention "self-selecting" in this post yet?


Ignoring people isn't hard. Its trivial.

You know what is hard? Explaining what you know to somebody who doesn't know as much as you do. That's hard. THAT is the real challenge.

 ::) I was not geting at you NYET , it was the guy with the big head above you lol ,
I read this forum to try and learn stuff , the hardwear I am comfertable with , its the programing bit that throws me , oh and I am not a newbie , started on machine code and stuff back in the days of zx spectrums lol , and been under the bonnet of cars for over 30 years  :P.

the problem is , people ask things , and get shit replies , then go away and never come back , we all need to start somewere , and if no one ever asked anthing on here the place would be dead .

jim

jim trust me, I understand what you are saying 100%

i think i just hit a nerve. :)

definitely. this topic never fails to rile me...

not to mention any comparison to az.

for fwiw, your site that i found long long ago was a gold mine of information.
ive learned tons from the information shared here.
maybe im just jaded. maybe its the fact that people with blinders over their eyes look at some others like they are gods gift to the tuning world when me, along with others, are who put them where they are. it gets a little tough to swallow.
and thats not me being big headed. thats me speaking from personal interactions with a few.

I think we need to make a distinction between the new members that don't want to put in any effort, and the new members who genuinely need a helping hand. To put it bluntly some of the guys here are intimidating (to say the least). I help out whenever I can, but I can certainly understand those that are hesitant to do so. I think it's a 2 part problem-older members are reluctant to pass on information they had to work so hard to attain. Newer members don't seem to understand why every question asked is given a short response.

It irritates me when I try to help someone and it's obvious they don't pay attention or take any initiative and act ungrateful. Is the information I give going to be used commercially? Passed off as their own? Who knows. In the end I guess it really doesn't matter. I'm not going to let a few people dictate my actions, but ultimately it's your decision. I for one love the forum, and think additional rules would be detrimental. I do like the rating system, gives me an idea of the kind of person I'm talking to.

LOL, just saw this topic.
Didn't think I'd have to use the same image twice in a week, but:

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30294516.jpg)

And:

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100608151920/prunescape/images/4/47/Successful-troll-is-successful.jpg)

Is all I can say.

The key to success for a noob here is to ask specific questions.

I personally don't have time to do write-ups and I'm sure that's the case for most of us.

Op, ask specific questions, get a general understanding, take screenshots, post them and ask questions about them, repeat until you understand the whole process. Then you can post a DIY.

I can understand what you are saying.
And I understand the concept of what to do.
However doing it is another task all together. Especially when I have no Idea of how to "make a map"
Once I find the address from comparing to a similar file. And now I know, ok here is the address for the map in my file.

I am suppose to "make a map" or somehow define the location of this map. This is the part I don't understand.

I was able to find the top speed limit from a file and then found it in my .bin. But once I found it I was like. Humm great, how do I start to make a .ols and
tell it this new found information.

I can find map locations all day from comparing, but not knowing how to assemble a .ols is the problem.

Basics:  what ECU are you trying to work with?

making a map: highlight the area that is the map, right click, selection, map. or highlight the area and hit k.

or copy/paste an existing map, and rightclick->properties and adjust the offsets, sizes, axes, etc.

Oh good god.
That doesn't sound fun at all.

I still don't understand your question then. How else are you going to enter in all the axis data?

Axis data? What is this axis data you speak of?

See I'm so far off knowing what to do, that's the problem.

http://www.evc.de/ftp/winols/WinOLS%20HelpEn.pdf (http://www.evc.de/ftp/winols/WinOLS%20HelpEn.pdf)

RTFM.

WOW this just went full circle in a painful way.

massive thanks to those who take the time to answer questions repeatedly, continuously updating and supporting software to accommodate one 512mb vs. a 1024mb bin file, and explaining how to do all of this at CMD level. I'm finally getting past the intimidation of the casual mention of hex editing to match software to a device by manipulating the data at offset 5x9efffefffeffffef...

It just sucks when an f1torrents kind of user doesn't seem to want to put in the time reading, when so many of you have put in the time writing it down over and over and over again.

cheers

This was actually a massive help.
I didn't have the manual.
This is answering all of my questions.

Thanks

this one might help too. though, it is for diesel.

Nah people on here arent harsh  ;D  eventually ill figure this stuff out..  in the mean time, its read read, read some more and read...  ask for help get bashed, read some more hahaha.  at the end of the day we are all here because we are enthusiasts of some kind.  some of you just got a head start....  Search button is a great tool, but it can only yield so much.  and these manual links are priceless.. 

 ;D well I am learning all the time  ;D , its 4.40 am here , on the nightshift in an office myself , so got all night to read and learn , oh and just sorting out 2gb of manuals in pdf to read next week when I am on the nightshift  :D.

jim

Lots of valid aruments ..

Add to the fact that a few members are "tuning" other peoples cars for cash , reduced amounts , yet using this forum to look good in their own enviroments . A few of these guys running 5-6 page threads when tuning a customers car ..

If you are a commercial member , have the guts to say so .

From my end , thanks to all the stalwarts here .. Lots of good info and assistance

Thank you, I've been searching for hours, mostly spinning my wheels (and not in the fun way!) trying to figure out where to even start without being able to find a premade definitions file, this gives me something to work with!

DUDE! Im fairy new to this forum and was randomly going through different posts and i have to say. After reading your replies on compressed comments i developed a whole new level of respect for you bro and i don't even know you. I truly understand the sweat and efforts you guys put into discovering how these ecm's work and how to manipulate them but at the same time lets give the new generation something to work with here all they are trying to do is keep these cars alive and thanks to you guys they can. Yes some might abuse the shit out of this or try to claim it as their own but how is that any different from a guy going on ebay and buying a bundle of 15k of different tunes for 10$  and claiming those as their own. Its not, bad people will be bad no matter what. This forum needs to continue to educate the users over and over to keep it going and not hold anything back. Ive always been a super huge vw/audi guy and ive convinced my entire family friends and other relatives to buy these cars only for one reason because i was able to gather enough knowledge and teach myself how to work on these cars. Lets face it when it comes to standard maintenance and reliability the Japs have it hands down. So i say lets all get along good or bad keep this shit rolling!!