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Title: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: boomerro on February 06, 2013, 10:52:12 PM I am very curious about how people obtain the XDF files for ecus. Do people write their own, find them, smuggle them out of bosch, whats the deal with these things?
Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: ddillenger on February 06, 2013, 11:02:35 PM You make them. Every xdf file you use has countless hours of someone's hard work in it.
Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: boomerro on February 06, 2013, 11:05:15 PM You make them. Every xdf file you use has countless hours of someone's hard work in it. God damn... that is nuts. Found this, gonna give it a read... http://www.tunerpro.net/tutorials/CreatingECUs.htm Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: boomerro on February 06, 2013, 11:08:24 PM From an IP law point of view, what is the legality issue of reverse engineering an XDF that a Bosch engineering team spent years developing? I know personal use is different than business use, but either way, what are the legal issues surrounding the development of an XDF file?
Who gets these "Hack" files? Where do they come from? http://www.tunerpro.net/tutorials/CreatingECUs.htm Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: ddillenger on February 06, 2013, 11:25:03 PM Bosch never created an xdf. (EVER). That is a tunerpro specific extension, created by people that use tunerpro. No issue with legality concerning xdf's. As far as the other aspects, take a look @ the "what is stealing and who owns tunes" thread.
Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: boomerro on February 06, 2013, 11:41:18 PM Bosch never created an xdf. (EVER). That is a tunerpro specific extension, created by people that use tunerpro. No issue with legality concerning xdf's. As far as the other aspects, take a look @ the "what is stealing and who owns tunes" thread. Yeah I was just reading that again. I am still curious about these Hack files though, i see a lot of people talking about hard work developing an XDF and I am curious as to how they got started without some sort of information from Bosch about the disassembled bin files. Unless people can really go from straight bin files to XDF, I don't see how this could be done without some sort of inside help or information from Bosch... Maybe thats just the noob in me trying to wrap my head around being able to develop an XDF from scratch. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: ddillenger on February 06, 2013, 11:50:24 PM The maps are the easy part. It's the bytes and codewords, error classes, etc that are hard to find as they don't really have a pattern.
Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: boomerro on February 07, 2013, 12:15:14 AM The maps are the easy part. It's the bytes and codewords, error classes, etc that are hard to find as they don't really have a pattern. I haven't dont it before, but judging by the little coding experience I have, finding out what a code does without having comments attached to it takes an extremely well trained eye as well as a Hefty amount of patience and perseverance. Do people really develop XDF files from scratch without pre disassembled code with attached comments? Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: ddillenger on February 07, 2013, 12:27:06 AM The vast majority of people who create xdf's just compare a known bin/definition to an unknown bin, taking note of similarities. I'm not quite sure what people did before that, I would think they scratched, clawed, and bribed damos files from other people in the know.
That, and disassembled. We have it easy. A few years ago none of this was open to the public. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: phila_dot on February 07, 2013, 06:18:16 AM Lolololol....you thought OEM calibrators use Tunerpro!!!!!
XDF's and "hack" files are all created by people like the ones on this site through hard work. Somehow, A2L files and some documentation has made it's way out of Bosch and into the hands of some tuners, but most people don't share this information. Seriously though, what the fuck is your point with all of this? Since you have such a problem with tuners and tuning maybe you should just return that car of yours to stock or run those RS6's and fueling on the stock binary. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: boomerro on February 07, 2013, 08:46:27 AM Lolololol....you thought OEM calibrators use Tunerpro!!!!! XDF's and "hack" files are all created by people like the ones on this site through hard work. Somehow, A2L files and some documentation has made it's way out of Bosch and into the hands of some tuners, but most people don't share this information. Seriously though, what the fuck is your point with all of this? Since you have such a problem with tuners and tuning maybe you should just return that car of yours to stock or run those RS6's and fueling on the stock binary. I thought they used Tuner Pro or winlos or some variation of it. Phil I am just trying to get answers man... No need to get angry with me. There is a wealth of information over here that is not on any other forum. I am questioning the legality of reverse engineering Bosch ecus. After a bit of research and help from people here I found out my assumptions about the XDF files were wrong. I am just a curious person trying to learn as much as I can. Sorry :P Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: phila_dot on February 07, 2013, 10:11:00 AM I thought they used Tuner Pro or winlos or some variation of it. Phil I am just trying to get answers man... No need to get angry with me. There is a wealth of information over here that is not on any other forum. I am questioning the legality of reverse engineering Bosch ecus. After a bit of research and help from people here I found out my assumptions about the XDF files were wrong. I am just a curious person trying to learn as much as I can. Sorry :P What are your intentions? You're trying to gather information to prove your points on AZ it seems and devaluing and undermining the entire concept of something you reap the benefits of. Reversing, modifying, and optimizing ECU code and calibrations and copying another tuners work for profit are not in the same ballpark. No matter how badly you and the rest of them want to justify it. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: boomerro on February 07, 2013, 10:31:36 AM What are your intentions? You're trying to gather information to prove your points on AZ it seems and devaluing and undermining the entire concept of something you reap the benefits of. Reversing, modifying, and optimizing ECU code and calibrations and copying another tuners work for profit are not in the same ballpark. No matter how badly you and the rest of them want to justify it. To gain knowledge of how the initial reverse engineering process took place. I am curious to if it is, strictly speaking, legal or not. I am done with that thread on az. Most of those people don't know any more than I do. I came here because this community knows far more about how the reverse engineering tool place. The question originally posed was how are the xdf files obtained because I assumed they were used by Bosch. My little knowledge lead me to that incorrect assumption. I moved the discussion of legality to the other threa on here about 'what is stealing' and such. I am just trying to gain knowledge and inspire conversation and discussion on this topic. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: prj on February 07, 2013, 05:51:42 PM I am going to get negative rep for it, but the truth is people get XDF's by hard work and not by sh*tposting on forums.
Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: boomerro on February 09, 2013, 05:57:00 PM I am going to get negative rep for it, but the truth is people get XDF's by hard work and not by sh*tposting on forums. I was trying to find out how XDF files were obtained, I learned a bit from researching and a bit from info in this thread about how they are made and that they would never be used by an OEM and that they use an entirely different system. I was unaware of this, ever not know something? yeah that was me, my bad... I don't get why you guys think im trying to start crap... I guess I will never question legality or ethics around here again. God damn. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: hutchb2 on February 10, 2013, 02:31:44 PM HAHAHAAHA this thread kills me.
I find it hilarious that you are posting away on AZ trying to 'educate' people when you admittedly have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Here's a free life lesson: don't open your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about. People will call you for your bullshit. You were 'done' with that thread the moment you said anything. If you use the phrase 'reverse engineered' or 'hacked' one more time, I'm going to punch a baby. Enough! Quit hiding behind your noble intentions. No one cares and you aren't advancing shit when you try to delve into the mystery of the origins of definition files (or whatever your weekly infatuation may be). Finally, I feel like you should at least get something positive out of this post; I'll help you out a bit. When Bosch/Audi develop their parameter sets (you call them tunes), they do so directly in their code before it is compiled and downloaded to the ECU. To explain this properly would take quite some time and I don't feel like spoon feeding today. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: ddillenger on February 10, 2013, 02:37:24 PM HAHAHAAHA this thread kills me. I find it hilarious that you are posting away on AZ trying to 'educate' people when you admittedly have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Here's a free life lesson: don't open your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about. People will call you for your bullshit. You were 'done' with that thread the moment you said anything. If you use the phrase 'reverse engineered' or 'hacked' one more time, I'm going to punch a baby. Enough! Quit hiding behind your noble intentions. No one cares and you aren't advancing shit when you try to delve into the mystery of the origins of definition files (or whatever your weekly infatuation may be). Finally, I feel like you should at least get something positive out of this post; I'll help you out a bit. When Bosch/Audi develop their parameter sets (you call them tunes), they do so directly in their code before it is compiled and downloaded to the ECU. To explain this properly would take quite some time and I don't feel like spoon feeding today Who are you? I think we can be friends. lol Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: hutchb2 on February 10, 2013, 05:14:31 PM Who are you? I think we can be friends. lol haha been reading threads on here for a while now. I have nothing to contribute so I keep my mouth shut and learn from you guys. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: zillarob on February 10, 2013, 05:43:24 PM Id watch how much you say about that software hutch, Bosch will send ninja assassins to you house if you are not authorized.
I have the ME7 Master software if you want to build a file next time you are in town. Its cool stuff and pretty easy to use. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: hutchb2 on February 10, 2013, 05:54:58 PM I have the ME7 Master software if you want to build a file next time you are in town. Its cool stuff and pretty easy to use. done! while im enjoying the current revision, we both know the CF's will be a little high come the warmer weather. I'm definitely in the need for a new parameter set (my new favorite phrase). and we still need to play with some rs4 tunes. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: zillarob on February 10, 2013, 06:07:20 PM They were pretty clear about the ninja assassins in the contract I signed, but could prob get away with a few screenshots if we keep it on the down low.
Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: hutchb2 on February 10, 2013, 06:11:36 PM They were pretty clear about the ninja assassins in the contract I signed, but could prob get away with a few screenshots if we keep it on the down low. I took karate once. we should be alright. ;D Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: zillarob on February 10, 2013, 06:17:36 PM Here ya go. Pretty basic really.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ogYsvzLzup0/URg_iTL18GI/AAAAAAAABWw/e4i_aCMWXeg/s241/1.PNG) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aG9-3wxdeuk/URg_iRqx79I/AAAAAAAABW0/Lb3WJXNP5uI/s241/2.PNG) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8iqraHKNTzA/URg_iTa1DYI/AAAAAAAABW8/wjBaajPg6CQ/s241/3.PNG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jsfbFiYLCdM/URg_ik6TYDI/AAAAAAAABXA/1kU0VGg21Fc/s241/4.PNG) (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZmP9MxGrhuQ/URg_i88gqMI/AAAAAAAABXM/5U7YTg9_xCk/s290/5.PNG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vfM637vIviI/URg_jZ0IqrI/AAAAAAAABXQ/jSJv7RcZKP8/s241/6.PNG) (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q4y8amxxzUg/URg_jSUTxZI/AAAAAAAABXU/gRHGY8TRDMw/s246/7.PNG) PS: I might need to borrow your vicious dawgs for a few weeks for protection! Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: hutchb2 on February 10, 2013, 06:23:12 PM hahaha the drive through menu at McTunes (or Tunerking - which ever you prefer).
/this thread is now about drive-through tuner shops Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: zillarob on February 10, 2013, 06:36:35 PM Lol, Tunerking does have a certain ring to it!
I just hope this clears up some of the confusion on how tunes are actually developed ;D Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: nyet on February 13, 2013, 11:53:32 AM This thread is a++
Quiz: how was this xdf made? http://nyet.org/cars/files/4Z7907551R.xdf Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: hutchb2 on February 14, 2013, 12:24:18 PM This thread is a++ Quiz: how was this xdf made? http://nyet.org/cars/files/4Z7907551R.xdf reverse hacking, clearly. Title: Re: How do people get XDF files? Legality issue? Post by: zillarob on February 14, 2013, 12:53:55 PM This mesim thing, now who was it I have seen mention that before ;)
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