boomerro
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« on: February 06, 2013, 10:52:12 PM »
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I am very curious about how people obtain the XDF files for ecus. Do people write their own, find them, smuggle them out of bosch, whats the deal with these things?
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ddillenger
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 11:02:35 PM »
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You make them. Every xdf file you use has countless hours of someone's hard work in it.
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boomerro
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 11:05:15 PM »
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You make them. Every xdf file you use has countless hours of someone's hard work in it.
God damn... that is nuts. Found this, gonna give it a read... http://www.tunerpro.net/tutorials/CreatingECUs.htm |
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« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 11:12:00 PM by boomerro »
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boomerro
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 11:08:24 PM »
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From an IP law point of view, what is the legality issue of reverse engineering an XDF that a Bosch engineering team spent years developing? I know personal use is different than business use, but either way, what are the legal issues surrounding the development of an XDF file? Who gets these "Hack" files? Where do they come from? http://www.tunerpro.net/tutorials/CreatingECUs.htm |
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« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 11:13:28 PM by boomerro »
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ddillenger
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 11:25:03 PM »
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Bosch never created an xdf. (EVER). That is a tunerpro specific extension, created by people that use tunerpro. No issue with legality concerning xdf's. As far as the other aspects, take a look @ the "what is stealing and who owns tunes" thread.
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boomerro
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 11:41:18 PM »
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Bosch never created an xdf. (EVER). That is a tunerpro specific extension, created by people that use tunerpro. No issue with legality concerning xdf's. As far as the other aspects, take a look @ the "what is stealing and who owns tunes" thread.
Yeah I was just reading that again. I am still curious about these Hack files though, i see a lot of people talking about hard work developing an XDF and I am curious as to how they got started without some sort of information from Bosch about the disassembled bin files. Unless people can really go from straight bin files to XDF, I don't see how this could be done without some sort of inside help or information from Bosch... Maybe thats just the noob in me trying to wrap my head around being able to develop an XDF from scratch. |
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ddillenger
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:50:24 PM »
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The maps are the easy part. It's the bytes and codewords, error classes, etc that are hard to find as they don't really have a pattern.
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boomerro
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 12:15:14 AM »
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The maps are the easy part. It's the bytes and codewords, error classes, etc that are hard to find as they don't really have a pattern.
I haven't dont it before, but judging by the little coding experience I have, finding out what a code does without having comments attached to it takes an extremely well trained eye as well as a Hefty amount of patience and perseverance. Do people really develop XDF files from scratch without pre disassembled code with attached comments? |
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ddillenger
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 12:27:06 AM »
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The vast majority of people who create xdf's just compare a known bin/definition to an unknown bin, taking note of similarities. I'm not quite sure what people did before that, I would think they scratched, clawed, and bribed damos files from other people in the know.
That, and disassembled. We have it easy. A few years ago none of this was open to the public.
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phila_dot
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 06:18:16 AM »
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Lolololol....you thought OEM calibrators use Tunerpro!!!!!
XDF's and "hack" files are all created by people like the ones on this site through hard work.
Somehow, A2L files and some documentation has made it's way out of Bosch and into the hands of some tuners, but most people don't share this information.
Seriously though, what the fuck is your point with all of this?
Since you have such a problem with tuners and tuning maybe you should just return that car of yours to stock or run those RS6's and fueling on the stock binary.
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boomerro
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 08:46:27 AM »
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Lolololol....you thought OEM calibrators use Tunerpro!!!!!
XDF's and "hack" files are all created by people like the ones on this site through hard work.
Somehow, A2L files and some documentation has made it's way out of Bosch and into the hands of some tuners, but most people don't share this information.
Seriously though, what the fuck is your point with all of this?
Since you have such a problem with tuners and tuning maybe you should just return that car of yours to stock or run those RS6's and fueling on the stock binary.
I thought they used Tuner Pro or winlos or some variation of it. Phil I am just trying to get answers man... No need to get angry with me. There is a wealth of information over here that is not on any other forum. I am questioning the legality of reverse engineering Bosch ecus. After a bit of research and help from people here I found out my assumptions about the XDF files were wrong. I am just a curious person trying to learn as much as I can. Sorry  |
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phila_dot
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 10:11:00 AM »
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I thought they used Tuner Pro or winlos or some variation of it. Phil I am just trying to get answers man... No need to get angry with me. There is a wealth of information over here that is not on any other forum. I am questioning the legality of reverse engineering Bosch ecus. After a bit of research and help from people here I found out my assumptions about the XDF files were wrong. I am just a curious person trying to learn as much as I can. Sorry What are your intentions? You're trying to gather information to prove your points on AZ it seems and devaluing and undermining the entire concept of something you reap the benefits of. Reversing, modifying, and optimizing ECU code and calibrations and copying another tuners work for profit are not in the same ballpark. No matter how badly you and the rest of them want to justify it. |
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boomerro
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 10:31:36 AM »
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What are your intentions?
You're trying to gather information to prove your points on AZ it seems and devaluing and undermining the entire concept of something you reap the benefits of.
Reversing, modifying, and optimizing ECU code and calibrations and copying another tuners work for profit are not in the same ballpark. No matter how badly you and the rest of them want to justify it.
To gain knowledge of how the initial reverse engineering process took place. I am curious to if it is, strictly speaking, legal or not. I am done with that thread on az. Most of those people don't know any more than I do. I came here because this community knows far more about how the reverse engineering tool place. The question originally posed was how are the xdf files obtained because I assumed they were used by Bosch. My little knowledge lead me to that incorrect assumption. I moved the discussion of legality to the other threa on here about 'what is stealing' and such. I am just trying to gain knowledge and inspire conversation and discussion on this topic. |
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prj
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2013, 05:51:42 PM »
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I am going to get negative rep for it, but the truth is people get XDF's by hard work and not by sh*tposting on forums.
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boomerro
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 05:57:00 PM »
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I am going to get negative rep for it, but the truth is people get XDF's by hard work and not by sh*tposting on forums.
I was trying to find out how XDF files were obtained, I learned a bit from researching and a bit from info in this thread about how they are made and that they would never be used by an OEM and that they use an entirely different system. I was unaware of this, ever not know something? yeah that was me, my bad... I don't get why you guys think im trying to start crap... I guess I will never question legality or ethics around here again. God damn. |
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