NefMoto

So for the past few days I was going through whole MSF module and found few interesting things. One of them is ability to completely forget KFZWOP map and all ignition angle / torque interventions due to this map.

Basically everything starts in MDBAS. There is only one map that will skip delta corrections between kfzw and kfzwop: ETADZW = 100%. After setting this map to 100% everywhere we are almost done. You can check every single place in FR where ETADZW is used and you will find out that ETADZW is only where zwopt is: MDIST, ZWMIN, LAMBTS.

• In MDIST we check etazwist variable.
• In ZWMIN we check etazwmn variable.
• In LAMBTS we check what happens with detazwbs variable.

OUTCOMES:
etazwist:::
1. in ATM becomes etazwimt
2. in LAMBTS becoms etazwim
3. in DTEV disables KFDETATE correction
4. in DTEV skips check with ETAZWTEN and allows diagnostics of Tank Ventilation.

etazwimt:::
1. in ATM disables KFATMZW correction
2. in ATM disables KLATMZWE correction
3. in ATM disables KLATMIZWE correction
4. in ATM disables KFATZWK correction

etazwim:::
1. in LAMBTS disables KFDLBTS correction (etazwg - etazwim = 100% - 100% = 0%)

etazwmn:::
1. in MDKOL disables mifa_w correction
2. in MDZUL disables miszul_w correction
3. in MDRED disables miopt_w correction

Now one last thing left to do is to check MDZW (there's one instance of zwopt variable). zwopt-dzws = zwsol. zwsol is found only in ZUE and this variable can be ignored by setting b_zwappl = 1 (CWMDAPP.0 = 1 in PROKONAL).

For confirmation we can now search for etazwb (MDKOG: etazwb * miopt_w), etazwbm (MDKOL: multiplier of 1; MDZUL: miszullbw * etazwbm), etatrmn instances. Everything works out perfectly and it doesn't seem to be some kind of hack, but just alteration of mechanism :) Anyways, if this helps someone then please chime in and tell your results :)

hmm, interesting.. i will try this  ;D

Seriously?

zwopt is not a problem in any way. You are disabling all failsafes for ignition angle efficiency. Unless you are running retarded timing or lots of KR retard then it won't intervene. If anything fudge things slightly.

Have you looked at all of the conditions for fast path torque intervention? You are completely disabling it.

Spend a little time tuning and ME7 won't intervene.

Seriously?

Do you have ANY idea what the outcome of setting this one bit alone will do?  Obviously not.

+1
+1
Good luck driving the car L O L

There are no more instances in fr where this bit would be used except for this only situation. Care to tell in which page it is drawn in diagram showing that it chsnges something else?

Ps so youre saying that knock control will not work? Anything else isnt important to me.

instead of turning everything off, how about you try understanding it all and figuring out where the interventions are / would be occurring.

Hey guys

I get that this is misguided enthusiasm, but masterj isn't exactly a noob. He's contributed quite a bit, and deserves a bit of  consideration as such. I'm sure if you explained it to him instead of being snarky your time, and his, would be better spent.

Nehalem:

I pm'd you. Not feeling the love :(

nehalem, I personally have tuned my car with everything enabled, but now I want to disable some things that I do not need and check if everything will still be ok for my future projects (simplify some things that without special automotive gear I can't test). Both KFZWOP/2 maps we have to rescale each time KFMIOP load axis is changed, but in reality you can't rescale axis beyond it's origin correctly. What I mean is if originally it was 140 and you set last cell to 200 then difference between these two in table values you can only guess (semi-linearize) by previous cell, for example 135. Then you create coefficients and use that difference on all table cells that exceed 140 load. But no one can tell for sure what optimal ignition angle is at bigger loads without testing it (and in reality how would we test it with knock stopping us?). I think it isn't worst thing to disable this. After all KFZW/2 maps will regulate ignition (with some multiplying maps I suppose), right?

Hey sorry, I'll respond tomorrow.  In the meantime, I've used the following EV14 settings: for krkte and the 5 tvub values.   use the nefmoto stage 3 base mlhfm for Hitachi 85mm.

I can't say for the 1.8t, but for the 2.7t - I've found the RS4 KFZWOP/2 to be an improvement.  They are the same cylinder head.  How about comparing the diff between the 150hp, 180hp, and 225hp 1.8t maps?

2.7t and rs4 have different cylinder heads

I think there's some misunderstanding about KFZWOP.

This map does NOT need to be tuned. These maps are used to evalute degraded ignition angle. It's the difference between desired ignition angle and optimal ignition angle that matters. This allows ME7 to respond to too retarded ignition angles.

Rescale the axis if you must and interpolate/extrapolate original values. Done.

so all it does is limit ignition angle retardation?

No, it is used to determine ignition angle efficiency and is the basis for all of the failsafes reacting to it (i.e. ignition angle too retarded - dump fuel to combat rising EGT's).

If your spark timing is even close, then there won't be any intervention.

Edit: I should also mention that it is the base for ignition angle from torque intervention, which you are disabling. Your are effectively disabling 75% of the torque model. I suggest you take a hard look at MDKOG which triggers torque intervention in ZUE via MDZW.

I made a similar post about cwmdapp about 6-8 months ago and got the same response. Not to be beaten I spent a lot of time try to get the car to run half decently and whilst it ran ok the idle was always bad and tbh the amount of effort it took just wasn't worth it! You are much better off running cwarmd=0 and running from there if you want to limit torque intervention also look at monitoring maps. I can see where you're coming from but have to agree I think it's wasted effort. How ever just because someone says dont do it shouldn't mean you give up!

I think that if you want to disable the TQ monitoring part of the ECU, you might as well just go stand alone. 

And I do see the appeal of no TQ monitoring, personally I think it does hold back the car in some situations (I'm still convinced it did in my car)...

In my experience, the only problematic source (during WOT) is ARMD, which is easily numbed (and doesn't need to be disabled). For part throttle, torque monitoring is a *good* thing.

I welcome logs that show otherwise :)

I might change my mind once someone has a fast stock ECU S4... If I see one that comes even close to matching Gurumans best runs with a comparable setup then I might tend to believe that ME7 is not holding back the car(s) :)

Just like everything else, it can be tuned to operate as you wish. Torque intervention is easily visible as well.

Fast path - zwist == zwsol
Slow path - manifests as limited desired load, more difficult to indentify but if rlsol_w follows rlmax_w then intervention definitely isn't an issue

I know what you and Nye are saying... and maybe it isn't the TQ monitoring in the ECU but proof is in the pudding... there are no fast stock ECU S4's from what I can see.

I don't blame ME7