NefMoto

No worries.I think the new 2013/2014 GT500 EV14s are going to be the injector of choice from now on. Rated 55lbs at fords 2.7bar, bosch rates them at an even 60lbs@3bar. 630cc, same spray pattern as the 47lbers we've been getting, and cheaper at 25 bucks an injector.

dd, part number?

for reference:

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors

I love this guy. Great seller, super fast shipping, gave me his number, and always accepts my lowball offers.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Shelby-GT500-55lb-55-fuel-Injectors-Bosch-5-4-EV14-07-08-09-10-11-12-/310702777118?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item485754231e

Part number listed in the auction :)

15 deg dual?
what length? 52mm (ctc)?
connector? EV14/USCAR?
got latency specs?

:)

trying to get all our data in one basket...

I do not have latency specs, but I'm going to start with the 550cc data and tweak from there. Externally they're identical to the 47lbers, same length, same length between o-rings, and same connectors. Just a bit bigger.

FYI, if 3 of us (2 more) buy a set of 8, we'll have 6 spares between the two of us. I'll donate mine to a good cause :P

http://boschdealer.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=82

does this look like the one?

Bosch 0 280 158 298 0280158298

These seem very similar to the 0 280 158 123's except the 123.s have jetronic connectors rotated 90deg (which makes install easier)...

Also, the 123's have a dual cone pattern. Not sure what pattern the 298's have.

They are indeed the 298's (0280158298). Mine are still in the bag, haven't yet opened them. As for the spray pattern, I can't see it being different from the 550s, intake port/manifolds haven't changed from 2012-2013 in the GT500, and these are a popular upgrade. The 0280158123's (wasn't pablo(?) selling a set of those?) look convenient as they are plug and play, but is the spray pattern ideal with that extension tube? In addition, they're about 3x more money than the ford racing units, and don't seem to be readily available from US suppliers. I paid 190 bucks for 8 brand new injectors. That'll buy 2 of the 123's.

Ok i have updated the s4 wiki with as current info as i have.. please take a look! if you see something missing, fix it or let me know :)

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors

also, here is a QW thread on the 123s: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4/msgs/183984.phtml

 

I'm still trying to figure a way to return the 550s I got from ECSTuning...I think I paid almost $260 for 4 including the Ford racing adaptors... and get yours. :(

The ebay seller I linked is a good guy. I've ordered 3 sets of varying sizes from him, no problems, fast shipping, exactly as described.

198's? DD is this a typo or do you have specs for the 198's? I found them for $20 each and see they are used in the 5.4L Ford van. But could not find other info related to flow rates or spray pattern.
Thanks!

The ones I have are the 298s. I've seen the 198s advertised as being 47lbers, and I know they're from vans. The only way I can see them being 47lb is if it's a flexfuel van. I bought a set new for 12 bucks each, I intend to install them, and see what's what.

Any idea of the bar rating on the 198's to get 47lb? 2.7 bar?? $12, sheesh. I dont want to think about how much I paid for these 60lb modified EV's

I'm installing a set within a week or so just to see what they actually are. I'll start with the values from the Ford Racing 50#, and go from there based on trims. Once trims are zero'd KRKTE should give a good indication of what size they actually are.

Yeah, they're good. This is KFKHFM set to all 1's. Linear? You betcha.

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2ecnj3s.png)

interesting, i wonder how much i could get these for, i do work at a ford dealer :-\

I would imagine less than me, which is already so cheap you could afford to change the injectors every time you do the plugs.

This is a little late, but... yes, I ran the 123's for a few months and they were great.  Plug and play, no signs of pooling or wall-wetting.  All the intake valves looked nice and clean, smooth idle.  Possible down side is the tip extension potentially causing less cross-sectional area for air flow in the runners.

I ditched the 630cc 123's for the 040's 980cc when I switched to E85. The 980cc are great injectors as well.

But for the prices listed in this thread, you can't go wrong.

I'll probably pick up an 8 pack of the 298s for my next project - 2.7T, E85, 10:1, rods, stock valve train.   Been working on the motor and transmission, now I just have to find an allroad with a blown motor or a 2002/3003 B6 A4 Avant with a blown motor for cheap.

edited: bad late night spelling.

still unsure as to my KRKTE location, but i have the rest, although i am unsure if this type of injector will fit? my knowledge on injector sizes/types is poor i know the plugs are different, but i have probably 10 wiring harness's laying around for fords :-P

Ddillenger would you mind sharing some of the specs you used?

yep
i need some more than 380's on 1.8t and can buy them

but dont know about TVUB

rofl, i can get these injectors for 40 dollars per injector!, got to be kidding me that's cheap, i got one for now, hopefully they fix.

Now if we could find ford application that uses 80-90lb bosch injector and is dirt cheap...

yeah, ford doesn't use bigger injector, they just use two per cylinder...like on the ford GT, so i think we are out of luck there  :-[

btw.. how much power are you running to need that?!

hopefully i can find which tvub ddillenger used along with krkte as a base and go from there.

600whp-ish

installed and tuned the injectors today, took me a while, julex I used your voltage chart your posted in the ev14 thread and tweaked very minor, worked perfectly!

set FKKVS to 1's and krkte trimmed out to around 0.0545

is there any way to tell around what these injectors put out? my fuel pressure is 58 PSI and these are the 298's, am I right with the calculation of 724cc?!

there is only 1 issue, which is not a big issue, all fueling is logging almost perfect, only thing i'm noticing from before is when requesting 0.8 lambda, i'm getting 0.78 0.79

and when rolling down a hill in gear and just touching the throttle it initially goes slightly rich before going immediately to 1.0 lambda

i'm assuming adjustments in FKKVS will fix this, can anyone tell me if i'm on the right track?

KFBAKL and KFVAKL should be tweaked as well :)

this is perfect! more maps to define  ::) ... thanks again lol

edit : pretty sure i have them, more testing tomorrow, i had enough for today :-P

edit : thanks again ddillgener, car runs great, only downside to modifying those maps was it took away the shotgun sound between shifts when tuned right.

i ended up modifying FKKVS under 2MS i reduced across the board a slight amount, along with ending up at KRKTE of 0.0555, trims are absolutely perfect now.

Out of interest did you need to modify tvub/fkkvs much with the 980cc (040's)?  i.e. how correct is the data sheet and how linear are they?

Thanks

http://www.tascaparts.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=DR3Z-9F593-A&make=Ford&action=oePartSearch&siteid=213668 (http://www.tascaparts.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=DR3Z-9F593-A&make=Ford&action=oePartSearch&siteid=213668)

$22.29 an injector.  ;D

good price, what did you end up going with?

Those injectors with EV1 to EV6 adapters and 12mm long, 14mm end fuel rail adapters.
https://www.treadstoneperformance.com/product.phtml?p=43891&cat_key=681&prodname=Aluminum+Injector+Hat+-+Blue

I might grab a 4 bar regulator from a Ford Fiesta, but probably not for a while.

Just the standard stuff. Should all be here by Friday hopefully.

Have you tried the 198's? Were they really 47lb?

I would like to upgrade injectors now, because I'm sure my stockers are growing weak and running them on 18 psi puts them at 100% duty cycle easily.

installed few days ago on my 1.8t with EV14-EV1 adapters
perfect fit, perfect idle, good coldstart and no issues with flat FKKVS
thanks DD!

lol wish I had stumbled onto this thread years ago awesome info!

I spent all too much time researching this... I need a little more than these can flow and we are talking drilled out injectors above 62lb which vary in quality but none are done very precisely and certainly don't preserve dual cone spray pattern 298/117 have.

Note to anybody using these: When installing, make absolutely sure that the injector plugs are facing towards intake manifold at 90 degrees to fuel rail. These are vectored with dual split cone. There is a bend to the dual spray the produce. If you rotate them by any amount, the spray will be hitting walls and miss outside valves to some degree.

Not all of the injectors above 62lb are drilled injectors...

most of bosch are (except for 040 I believe?) and the ones that are not, have usually single cone spray without a bend... hardly optimal for our engines.

I can get some 750's that are 5 hole disc. Not much more than these.

I just picked up a set of these does anyone know if I need anything other than the adapters my motors a awp

re-drills... they are probably shooting straight and forget about proper vectoring. I highly doubt that the re-drilling place goes to any length to preserve original two cone, 15 deg for alpha 50 (central area where 50% of fuel volume ends up in) and crucial 12 deg bend so that it goes down the runners not into their walls. All the videos I saw with proper spray pattern are untouched bosch injectors, any higher flowing ones (modified) are just spraying varied atomization cone straight down.

The reason I am saying they won't do it is that it would be labor intensive and precision work to get the angle of hole/channel jsut right for end result being a nice two beam spray with right angles to it. Bosch has laser drills for that.

I could easily just drill my own too, not a rocket science, if I want straight pattern. I could even attempt some vectoring, my drill press can do one angle, the other would have to be obtained via some jig. I have a nice set of precision drill bit, some so small I can barely see them :). Measuring flow afterwards would also be an interesting project. With tuning it myself I would not be concerned with how much precisely they flow, just to make sure they all flow the same.

Although I had a nice talk with a guy who sells these and he swore he makes them properly vectored and ensures the angles are preserved... but I am not sure if I trust them albeit having such convo on record with ebay, getting them and not getting what I want would ensure I get a refund on them. It would be a major waste of time though. The same guy thought I am lying that I can get bosch injector, in retail, that do 62lb out of the box for $22... He sells 117 redrills for $60. I guess his good run on these is over.

I guess we need to wait for ford to make 200hp higher GT500 for 2015 and unlimited $22 supply of 80lb injectors along with it :)

Why buy drilled when Bosch makes 221 different variations of the EV14 injector all the way up 1023cc/min @ 3bar in single and dual cone patterns? Both cone patterns are available in narrow, medium and wide variations @ 15, 20 and 25 degrees.




Also to add to julex's note on installation of these injectors, a maximum of 2 degree angle deviation is permissible between the injector axis and the fuel rail cap, respectively to the intake manifold.

not sure if this info has been posted before or not but for EV14 injectors:
 
The conversion of the flow-rates at changed pressures can be done by using the following formula:
 Flow rate (QstatP2) = square root of P2/P1 * QstatP1

P1 = current pressure
P2 = target pressure
Qstat = flowrate @ 100% opening time

Usually, the flow rates are shown in g/min, but it depends on the test medium. For this purpose, the following conversion is possible:
  
Qstat in g/min n-Heptan/0,684 = cm3/min
 
Qstat in g/min Gasoline/0,744 = cm3/min

Qstat in g/min ch20v3/0,780 = cm3/min

In order to achieve a better comparability,
the flow rates are usually stated at
3 bar (300 kPa).

this is straight from Bosch.

part number for a drop in 5bar FPR: B 280 550 113-03

Do you have their full current catalog? I couldn't find one and the ones from past didn't have anything over 600cc that would be dual cone and with bend. Post the catalog if you can!

By far the most comprehensive one from 2008 (sic) is this compilation: http://www.usrallyteam.com/content/products/injector/Bosch_Injector_data.xls

Anything newer than this is complete piece meal stuff, inaccurate and info missing. It is almost like bosch doesn't want their injector catalogs to be published on web...

Thanks.

Their full 2014 catalog is available @ bosch-motorsport.com

Anything not listed, they state to inquire about.

I did find a PDF that gives some part numbers, the highest flowing injector they show is 697g/1016cm3 with a part number of B 280 436 469-01. I have included a copy of the PDF that has this info.

Ok, I thought you have some insider info. Official catalogs are more than useless. Major problem with B 280 436 469-01 for example is that it costs several hundred euros per injector, lol.

This is why everyone modifies 117 (Ford part) and soon enough 298 part which is identical to 117 sans higher flow.

yea after some more digging, that is the general complaint about them and they are hard to come by also.

these EV14s are supposedly good for 8bar though so I guess just up the pressure till the small injector flows like big brother and reap the benefits of better atomization. A Bosch pump in their catalog capable of doing this is a mere 3-4grand easy..lol

I might have some "insider" info soon, I did inquire about some part numbers.

Yeah, if I could easily supply 8bars of pressure with enough volume without spending 1k+ on fule pumps I would just use these 60lb and not bother anybody lol... Keep me posted please.

Comes out that all of the injector modifiers have zero clue of what they're doing, they just drill straight through ruining orignal geometry of injector or at best giving you inconsistent split cones . I ordered a set of 8 of these (on national backorder though, figures, until may 5th or something like that) and I will drill them myself with proper angles. Then test flow, I have enough parts lying around for this to be no problem.

Drilling:
- Adjustable angle drill press with precision bits, I have some nice ones that are as thin as a hair and up from there.
- I can only adjust one angle... how do I get a compound angle for both x and y so that I can accomplish both dual-cone with a bend to streams? I will have to think about this.

Test rig I am thinking about:
- stock fuel pump pumping distilled water into stock fuel manifold with 3bar fpr, return to the same bucket
- injectors in stock fuel rail dumping into 2L empty coke bottles (weight the bottles on jewelers scale pre and post test to ensure injectors are flow matched)
- injectors connected to button switch so that they all fire simultaneously when I apply 12V
- estimate new flow by testing a sample drilled injector in parallel with stock which I know how much it flows. If stock flows 200g of water per test time and the drill out does 400g I know I have 2 x stock flow (630ish cc in this case)
- once I get one injector that flows roughly what I need (750cc - 800cc), replicate drilling on next one and flow match them. Do it for all six or eight. I ordered 8 to have spares lying around.


I will keep you posted, should be fun. At worst I will have a set of 6 to sell if I ruin two at which point I will abandon this adventure :)

It'd be nice. I know I don't want to run the single tips I have if I could get the cone pattern.

Personally, I wouldn't run water through fuel injectors.

Why not. These are E85 compatible, E85 commonly has a lot of water in it since it is hygroscopic. E85 is far more corrosive than distilled water. Distilled water doesn't have any minerals either so it won't leave any residues etc.

I don't really want to spray around mineral spirits, I could but that wouldn't be smart around a garage :)

My concern would be rust.

I would try to find an alternative.

That not a concern, they are e85 compatible so water doesn't affect them. If it did, we would hear a lot of stories about jammed Ev14 injectors already.

From the product page:

"
Fuel compatibility:

E85 / M100
(after Methanol-operating the
valves must be flushed with normal
gasoline-fuel)"

Methanol is very corrosive so I understand the note there. E85 though is not and contains a lot of water already.


Having said that I intend to either flush it with mineral spirits or just run compressed air through the rail and activate the valves until all water is removed.

What are you going to use to pulse the injectors?

Not decided on that yet. I might just do q-stat test on them and see where that gets me, this will tell the flow capacity of injectors.

Other than that I would have to figure out how to build something that rapidly pulses with 12V...

My injectors finally shipped yesterday, they were on national backorder for last month... I guess they are new flavor of the month.

If I cannot properly modify these, I might just bump up FPR pressure to 5bar, which would make them adequate to fuel my set up... I might have to do something with pump set up, maybe do duals. Running at 6-7bar would be preferrable anyway. Race car :). Superior fuel atomization this way.

btw
what KRKTE & KVB should i use on 1.8t ?

Running these for couple of days unmodified just to see how they're doing. I set my FPR to 5bar. So far I have to run surprisingly high KRKTE (70% higher for Ford at 5 bar than 1000cc at 4 bar, I expected difference of about 35%) which doesn't relate to expected flow of injectors at all. They seem to be considerably less flowing that what they are reportedly rated at (630 - 650 cc/min @ 3 bar). I should be getting ~820CC at 5bar and I am not getting that at all.

I rigged simple flow tester with my old fuel rail, 6 injectors in it (5 x 1000cc and one 0280158298) and power to fuel pump and two injectors, 1000cc and Ford. I am leaving 4 remaining ones unpowered, just to plug the injector holes. I will give it 12V and fill two bottles and then measure what each injector flowed. We'll see if the stuff matches or if my FPR/pressure gauge is POS and shows boloney readouts on fuel pressure and why the expected flow at higher pressures doesn't make sense in relationship to KRKTE I had to use.

But the injectors are super smooth... I forgot how good they are after running 1000CC straight shooters Ev14. They were not that bad but stock Ford ones are improvement, no doubt.

They flow 57lb at 44 psi as per the testing I've had done.

Do you have a FPR gauge? 5bar + manifold pressure is pretty damn high. Are you sure your pump can sustain that at 820cc?

Walbro 450 with modified pressure relief valve (so it easily goes full bore to 110psi - 7.5bar) and I will be adding BAP (boost a pump) module to supercharge fuel pump.

Plan B is to drill the injectors myself and try to preserve angles which sound more and more like I will have to do since the flow might not be as high as theory would suggest.

Thanks for confirmation. That makes it ~600cc at 3bar. I really need to flow test my set to see what's up with them. I think my FPR might be questionable too. Sigh.

is the modified pump available on the market?

I had 5 sets tested(20 injectors) .. All came out at 600cc at 3 bar +/- 1%

Sweet, I rigged my little test bench last night and they benched very close to that. I don't have any absolute numbers since I wasn't squirting heptane or gas and my rail pressure was unknown as Walbro 450 was feeding it and it had bosch 3bar regulator on without any gauge (I doubt the regulator can flow enough fuel so the rail poressure was probably much higher than 3bar). I was squirting distilled water though with 1000cc rated bosch and 298s at the same time. The flowed in 1.51 ratio so if the 1000cc is really 1000cc, it means the ford squirted at 660cc/min. But I need to repeat the test since I spilled a bit of fluid from 298s jar and estimated what I lost but it might be that the real flow once I repeat it today is what you guys state (600 ish).

On the upside, when I compared spray pattern of straight shooter and 298s, there is a huge difference. 298s have clearly define two-stream pattern with that nice bend to it, just like stock RS4 injectors. Hence, it is paramount to make absolutely sure that connectors on these are at 90deg to rail, facing valve covers. Any deviation from 90 deg and the streams will hit intake/head walls and not intended intake valves.

No, but the jist of modification is here:

http://foreinnovations.blogspot.com/2014/02/increase-fuel-pump-capacity-50-for-free.html

Note:

Make sure the tip of bolt is actually less than 4mm. 4mm is just the diameter of pressure relief cup/plug. If you insert a bolt and you spin is clockwise and it catches/doesn't let you pull it out freely, you need to file a tip of it just a bit so that it goes in and out smoothly.

Hole must be drilled just like in their pictures, they mistakenly make a remark about it being off-center. If you drill it out like they did you will be dead-center over relief valve bore.

Initially when you drill it, you will encounter a piece of metal in the connector part which is there just as reinforcement or maybe it is a magnet, it has no connection to any terminal or anything like that, it is just molded in the plastic. Drill through it, you will only skirt the outer edge of it, so it will still remain largerly intact. Once you go through the plastic, there is about 1/2" of free air space between bottom of plastic and actual relief valve cup, so don't be afraid drilling. Otherwise follow the instructions.

the company that tested them said, fuel temperature can make upto a 3% difference in flow rates as density varies with temp of fuel and also fuel used ie gravity of it.. 3% of 600 is obviously 18cc so I guess anywhere around the 600-610cc is possible.

Nice to know about the fuel spray, may make one injector seem faulty if not installed correctly, do you have picture of the flow pattern.

I'll make some tonight since I want to have a pic myself.

Thanks julex!

I think I found a solution that might work, I just need to verify how gas resistant our fuel rail return line is. So it happens it has a perfect shape and bends (after very slight trimming) as well as length and diameter to be used on walbro. If it doesn't dissolve in gas that is, lol. If that doesn't work,

Plan B will be 3/8 submersible line I already have but it doesn't have bends so it would be limiting flow due to forced bends once lid is on.
Plan C will be compression fittings (still iffy about it, pretty permanent solution so if something goes wrong I will be stuck with crippled pump).

at 5.5bar of base pressure (and 34psi of boost)  I hit 90 IDC at top of where I want to rev my engine to, that's on summer blend 93 octane. I will ramp the pressure up to 6bar and call it a day. I should just hit about 100% in cold winter which is fine by me. Walbro 450 still keeping up just fine after pressure valve mod.

I found this interesting graph of dual 044 pumps in both series and parallel which neatly illustrates difference in arrangement (you can run in series to reach absurd fuel pressures without any flow drop):

(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KadrdYi12jo/U4eFkUa9XoI/AAAAAAAAWMA/yuyAFgBNPmI/w1023-h662-no/Bosch044PumpCurveParallelvsSeries-page-001.jpg)

I'm running parallel 450s, 8AN feed, 6AN return, and fuelab filters/regulators. Be interested in some pics of what you have

How'd you do parallel 450s? You have made a bracket (in which case I want one!!!!:)) ?

Yep, they are in the tank nestled in the stock basket. I had a local machine shop make a bracket. I'll see if I can get another done.

That would be awesome. Any pics of what they did? Was is all made from scratch (assuming aluminum) or some re-do of stock parts?

When I measured it in the past, it would have to be from scratch since the fit would be quite tights with pumps being so fat on the bottom (if the tops were to be parallel, if not, then it wouldn't be that tight up top).

I didn't have a chance to do it and not inclined to re-rig the rail etc... But if you look at this video, this is exactly how these spray (same as 550 in video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f6noNVMq9o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f6noNVMq9o)


To compare unmolested Ev14 vs molested (drill outs), look at 4th  and 2nd injector spray pattern respectively:

(http://performancefuelsystems.com/images/clip_image006_000.jpg)


And remember that there is also a bend in the axis of spray pattern that forces the two streams to air directly at the intake valves vs straight shooters going straight and hitting intake port wall, on the most part.

This is what you want from injector fitting application (like RS4 injector or Ev14 ORIENTED PROPERLY):

(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm235/jibberjive/VE%20Intake%20Manifold/RS4_Study_Guide_Injectors.jpg)

It just dawned on me that you'll be running 120+psi absolute fuel pressure. From what I recall, That's the very maximum they can handle (I've heard of one bursting at 130psi).

Thoughts?

I do not think his going to hit 120+ psi as it is over 8 bar! Even with 5 bar pressure regulator he would need 3 bar of boost to be near 120psi...

I settled at 5.5 bar (80psi) and already did some WOT pulls, nothing blew up [:)]. I hit something to the tune of 112psi on rail.

He had said he was going to settle at 6 bar base fuel pressure, plus 34 psi boost (big turbo).

120psi is definitely possible.

DEfinitely, luckily 5.5bar did the trick :)

I would still carry a fire extinguisher. I've seen one of the 550's burst at 7bar at altitude.

I do carry one.

I understand you are looking for cheapest possible solution but if you need to run nearly double fuel pressure it's time to look for real injectors!

BTW. If you hope standard 1/2kg car fire extinguisher is of any use you should try to use on cigarette and then change your mind :D

You need to read what I wrote through the thread to understand why I want unmodified injectors. It has to do with molested/aftermarket injectors having completely inadequate spray patterns for 2.7t. I see vast improvements in idle/low load driving with these over 1000cc EV14 (drilled out).

5.5bar is not even 1.5 times the stock pressure (of 4 bar). 5bar FPRs are in wide use on so called stage 3- along with 22psi+ of boost  turbos so I am not charting completely unknown waters here.

Bosch indicates these to be used with up to 8bar of pressure.

I did not mean any drilled injectors but new and original Bosch units.
Here in Europe it is not normal to use anything more then stock pressure, I have seen cars with pressure lowered to 3 bar regulators. Why? Just because it is easier for the fuel pump to maintain flow at lower pressure. It is easier for injectors to work at such pressure even when running at more then 2 bar of boost. It is much more common to see 1500cc injectors then 5 or 5,5 or even 6 bar pressure regulators.

I understand.

There are no "new and original units" that spray the pattern 117/298 do. Anything approaching 1000cc from Bosch factory is either custom stuff (unaffordable) that could have what we need for spray pattern or generic stuff (still expensive!) that has straight spray pattern. I did my research.

The trend to go with low pressure FPRs is purely due to, what you noticed yoruself, fuel pump consideration and nothing else. That is not a factor here.

It is a fact that higher pressure = better atomization and that equals less knock, better MPG and more complete burning which are all benefits. I even noticed that on my own car after running 1000cc and these, 1000cc at 3bar and these at 5.5bar. After some tuning (so that idle, low and medium loads see perfect trims) and changing nothing else, I had to lower KFLF table for WOT as I was running very rich with these vs old ones. My theory is that atomization with poorly working 1000cc at low pressure were spraying huge (in comparions) droplets of fuel which had no chance to completely burn so I had to squirt more fuel than needed to reach proper AFRs. With original 298s, I went super rich after the swap indicating that fuel is burning more completely leaving very little oxygen so I had to subtract the fuel.

Also look at what real race cars are running, nobody does 3 or 4 bars, they run as high fpr as possible for the above mentioned benefits. Ofc TFSI is the real deal, there is nothing like squirting at 120bar :)

Julex, i'm trying to update the s4wiki injector page again:

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors

can you take another look and help me fill in the blanks (or verify the numbers?)

As far as my experience with couple of models goes, it is accurate. You might add that proper injector clocking is critical on any injector with a split cone/bend pattern as some people have no idea about that. You know, not 45deg, not 60, but exactly 90 degrees in respect to fuel rail, connector facing outwards (at least in case of most majority of them, including 117 and 298 UNMODIFIED)

Yea haven't gotten to clocking yet but it is on my list..  Do you know what the alpha50 is for the Ford injectors?

298 are exactly like 117, they go into the same manifold/heads arrangement so Bosch kept it the same, 15 deg.

Just used this for my tvub calculation for the .....298

http://www.deatschwerks.com/battery-offset-wizard

(http://abload.de/img/tvubo3jnl.jpg)

my s3 amk 1,8t not work this tvub
car runing 1-2sec and stop because too lean

now this use
2,82
1,69
1,27
0,88
0,68

krkte now
0,0556

same engine here

try tvub:
2,7577
1,9282
1,3388
1,9975
0,7894

these are measured values from user mil_on.

krkte in my case (2L engine) is 0,05495

temin/va use original or ?
i set 0,5013

Temin/VA is 0.2987

0,9975 @ tvub, my fault  ;D