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ddillenger
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« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2014, 10:25:39 AM »
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They flow 57lb at 44 psi as per the testing I've had done.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com
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nyet
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« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2014, 10:44:51 AM »
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I should be getting ~820CC at 5bar and I am not getting that at all.
Do you have a FPR gauge? 5bar + manifold pressure is pretty damn high. Are you sure your pump can sustain that at 820cc? |
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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julex
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« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2014, 12:00:37 PM »
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Do you have a FPR gauge? 5bar + manifold pressure is pretty damn high. Are you sure your pump can sustain that at 820cc?
Walbro 450 with modified pressure relief valve (so it easily goes full bore to 110psi - 7.5bar) and I will be adding BAP (boost a pump) module to supercharge fuel pump. Plan B is to drill the injectors myself and try to preserve angles which sound more and more like I will have to do since the flow might not be as high as theory would suggest. |
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« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 12:50:39 PM by julex »
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julex
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« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2014, 12:02:50 PM »
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They flow 57lb at 44 psi as per the testing I've had done.
Thanks for confirmation. That makes it ~600cc at 3bar. I really need to flow test my set to see what's up with them. I think my FPR might be questionable too. Sigh. |
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userpike
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« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2014, 03:20:12 PM »
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Walbro 450 with modified pressure relief valve (so it easily goes full bore to 110psi - 7.5bar) and I will be adding BAP (boost a pump) module to supercharge fuel pump.
is the modified pump available on the market? |
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littco
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« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2014, 04:08:42 AM »
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Thanks for confirmation. That makes it ~600cc at 3bar. I really need to flow test my set to see what's up with them. I think my FPR might be questionable too. Sigh.
I had 5 sets tested(20 injectors) .. All came out at 600cc at 3 bar +/- 1% |
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« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 04:11:40 AM by littco »
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julex
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« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2014, 06:36:02 AM »
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I had 5 sets tested(20 injectors) .. All came out at 600cc at 3 bar +/- 1%
Sweet, I rigged my little test bench last night and they benched very close to that. I don't have any absolute numbers since I wasn't squirting heptane or gas and my rail pressure was unknown as Walbro 450 was feeding it and it had bosch 3bar regulator on without any gauge (I doubt the regulator can flow enough fuel so the rail poressure was probably much higher than 3bar). I was squirting distilled water though with 1000cc rated bosch and 298s at the same time. The flowed in 1.51 ratio so if the 1000cc is really 1000cc, it means the ford squirted at 660cc/min. But I need to repeat the test since I spilled a bit of fluid from 298s jar and estimated what I lost but it might be that the real flow once I repeat it today is what you guys state (600 ish). On the upside, when I compared spray pattern of straight shooter and 298s, there is a huge difference. 298s have clearly define two-stream pattern with that nice bend to it, just like stock RS4 injectors. Hence, it is paramount to make absolutely sure that connectors on these are at 90deg to rail, facing valve covers. Any deviation from 90 deg and the streams will hit intake/head walls and not intended intake valves. |
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julex
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« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2014, 06:46:34 AM »
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is the modified pump available on the market?
No, but the jist of modification is here: http://foreinnovations.blogspot.com/2014/02/increase-fuel-pump-capacity-50-for-free.htmlNote: Make sure the tip of bolt is actually less than 4mm. 4mm is just the diameter of pressure relief cup/plug. If you insert a bolt and you spin is clockwise and it catches/doesn't let you pull it out freely, you need to file a tip of it just a bit so that it goes in and out smoothly. Hole must be drilled just like in their pictures, they mistakenly make a remark about it being off-center. If you drill it out like they did you will be dead-center over relief valve bore. Initially when you drill it, you will encounter a piece of metal in the connector part which is there just as reinforcement or maybe it is a magnet, it has no connection to any terminal or anything like that, it is just molded in the plastic. Drill through it, you will only skirt the outer edge of it, so it will still remain largerly intact. Once you go through the plastic, there is about 1/2" of free air space between bottom of plastic and actual relief valve cup, so don't be afraid drilling. Otherwise follow the instructions. |
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« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 07:47:22 AM by julex »
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littco
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« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2014, 09:04:38 AM »
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Sweet, I rigged my little test bench last night and they benched very close to that. I don't have any absolute numbers since I wasn't squirting heptane or gas and my rail pressure was unknown as Walbro 450 was feeding it and it had bosch 3bar regulator on without any gauge (I doubt the regulator can flow enough fuel so the rail poressure was probably much higher than 3bar). I was squirting distilled water though with 1000cc rated bosch and 298s at the same time. The flowed in 1.51 ratio so if the 1000cc is really 1000cc, it means the ford squirted at 660cc/min. But I need to repeat the test since I spilled a bit of fluid from 298s jar and estimated what I lost but it might be that the real flow once I repeat it today is what you guys state (600 ish).
On the upside, when I compared spray pattern of straight shooter and 298s, there is a huge difference. 298s have clearly define two-stream pattern with that nice bend to it, just like stock RS4 injectors. Hence, it is paramount to make absolutely sure that connectors on these are at 90deg to rail, facing valve covers. Any deviation from 90 deg and the streams will hit intake/head walls and not intended intake valves.
the company that tested them said, fuel temperature can make upto a 3% difference in flow rates as density varies with temp of fuel and also fuel used ie gravity of it.. 3% of 600 is obviously 18cc so I guess anywhere around the 600-610cc is possible. Nice to know about the fuel spray, may make one injector seem faulty if not installed correctly, do you have picture of the flow pattern. |
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julex
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« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2014, 09:41:15 AM »
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the company that tested them said, fuel temperature can make upto a 3% difference in flow rates as density varies with temp of fuel and also fuel used ie gravity of it.. 3% of 600 is obviously 18cc so I guess anywhere around the 600-610cc is possible.
Nice to know about the fuel spray, may make one injector seem faulty if not installed correctly, do you have picture of the flow pattern.
I'll make some tonight since I want to have a pic myself. |
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userpike
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« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2014, 09:48:17 AM »
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No, but the jist of modification is here: http://foreinnovations.blogspot.com/2014/02/increase-fuel-pump-capacity-50-for-free.htmlNote: Make sure the tip of bolt is actually less than 4mm. 4mm is just the diameter of pressure relief cup/plug. If you insert a bolt and you spin is clockwise and it catches/doesn't let you pull it out freely, you need to file a tip of it just a bit so that it goes in and out smoothly. Hole must be drilled just like in their pictures, they mistakenly make a remark about it being off-center. If you drill it out like they did you will be dead-center over relief valve bore. Initially when you drill it, you will encounter a piece of metal in the connector part which is there just as reinforcement or maybe it is a magnet, it has no connection to any terminal or anything like that, it is just molded in the plastic. Drill through it, you will only skirt the outer edge of it, so it will still remain largerly intact. Once you go through the plastic, there is about 1/2" of free air space between bottom of plastic and actual relief valve cup, so don't be afraid drilling. Otherwise follow the instructions. Thanks julex! |
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julex
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« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2014, 07:07:33 AM »
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I think I found a solution that might work, I just need to verify how gas resistant our fuel rail return line is. So it happens it has a perfect shape and bends (after very slight trimming) as well as length and diameter to be used on walbro. If it doesn't dissolve in gas that is, lol. If that doesn't work,
Plan B will be 3/8 submersible line I already have but it doesn't have bends so it would be limiting flow due to forced bends once lid is on.
Plan C will be compression fittings (still iffy about it, pretty permanent solution so if something goes wrong I will be stuck with crippled pump).
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julex
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« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2014, 06:54:58 AM »
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at 5.5bar of base pressure (and 34psi of boost) I hit 90 IDC at top of where I want to rev my engine to, that's on summer blend 93 octane. I will ramp the pressure up to 6bar and call it a day. I should just hit about 100% in cold winter which is fine by me. Walbro 450 still keeping up just fine after pressure valve mod. I found this interesting graph of dual 044 pumps in both series and parallel which neatly illustrates difference in arrangement (you can run in series to reach absurd fuel pressures without any flow drop):  |
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« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 06:56:52 AM by julex »
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ddillenger
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« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2014, 08:21:34 AM »
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I found this interesting graph of dual 044 pumps in both series and parallel which neatly illustrates difference in arrangement (you can run in series to reach absurd fuel pressures without any flow drop): I'm running parallel 450s, 8AN feed, 6AN return, and fuelab filters/regulators. Be interested in some pics of what you have |
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
Email/Google chat:
DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com
Email>PM
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julex
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« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2014, 09:40:07 AM »
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I'm running parallel 450s, 8AN feed, 6AN return, and fuelab filters/regulators. Be interested in some pics of what you have
How'd you do parallel 450s? You have made a bracket (in which case I want one!!!!:)) ? |
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