NefMoto

I recently purchased a 2000 Audi 2.7T and I was floored at the price of the APR chip.  $600....WOW :(  Neeless to say,  I"m excited to find this site.

I have a lot of experience of tuning with Tuner Pro.  I had a 1993 stock GMC Typhoon with water injection.  I had a PLX WBO2 plugged into the ECM for tuning and  She ran a 12.2 @ 109 mph :)   I used a standard EEPROM chip with a chip burner that I would physically remove and then edit the bin, then put the bin on a physical chip, then install the chip and do a data run.  I would repeat this process till I had achieved my best time of 12.2. 

So, that being said, the Audi software is flashing the ECM...something I have no clue as of yet how to do. 
I was hoping to find a thread of how to's & definitions of some of the terms and things needed to get started.

I have some questions regarding Nefmoto and tuning my Audi.  I plan on doing a lot of homework and using hte search button a lot, however, I woudl appreciate some help figuring out some of this stuff.  I hope to contribute to this community as I did the GMC Typhoon/Sylcone/Buick Grand National fourm :)

Bricking?
How to flash?
Where to find XDF files and stock bin's for my Audi.
I assume you use Tuner pro to do data runs so you can look at the file to see what the car is doing.....
Can I plug in a PLX WBO2 to the ECM to read readings  on my Audi?  Typhoon was easy to do. Audi...different animal so far ;(
Best priced and best preformance cable to purchase?

I found with my Typhoon that I would look at RPM, MAP values, Knock, Timing advance, O2 sensor readings and/or WBO2 to tweak the bin to get the car to max boost with max timing and ZERO KR.  Once I found this combo for 20-22psi, I backed off the boost and slowly increased timing. Some do it the otherway around, low boost & increase timing.  Eitherway, the goal was ZERO KR and max efficiency of the turbo.

Welcome!

If you are already familiar with TunerPro you're in good shape.

See my sig for starting points.

Thanks for the reply.

I need a how to from the begining :(

Not sure how to "flash" the ECM.

Connecting takes a cable/laptop and I assume NefMoto software.
Flashing I assume is loading the bin into the ECU electronically instead of the way I did on my Typhoon (burn chip in the pocket programer2 then remove & physically install into the ECM)

Data run.  I assume through tuner pro data log with CSV file....right?
Editing via Tuner Pro....I KNOW THIS :D
and then loading the bin into the ECU.

XDF File for the 2K Audi 2.7T and stock bin location?
I" also wondering if there are any comparable APR stage 1 bins available?  I"m not planing on starting there with that bin, I just want to see where they tweaked the tables and what I can do differnt or better :)
Right now, I"m a baby trying to walk in a differnt language. 

Thanks for the help.....I'll be running in no time :)

yea, through OBD connector.


No tuner pro logging supported. You'll want to use ME7Logger (see the tuning link in my sig)



There are several dozen(!) variants of the 2.7t bin. Again, see the tuning page on which are compatible and can be crossflashed etc.


Don't go there. Better to learn on your own, map by map. There are many reasons, but don't get me on that rant.

While I get the allure of wanting to see what others are doing, it won't help you I'm afraid. Other than the fact that everyone does things differently, Most commercial companies tend to move and encrypt things, so disregarding the moral implications, it's still not practical.

Read the S4 tuning wiki. That'll give you a good start :)

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

Oops. accidentally edited your post rather than replying. Sorry, i've deleted it because I can't recover it.

DD covered pretty much everything I said, but fwiw:


The tuning page itemizes everything most tuners change, and then some.

If you want to start with a reference, perhaps look at the DIY stage 2 and stage 3 files floating around on this forum.. you'll probably also get a lot more feedback as to WHY things were done they way they were done, which you will never get from APR

And since you just won't drop the topic: the APR bin you are asking for is encrpyted, and the maps moved around to obscure reverse engineering. There are also intentional red herrings in the file(s) meant to mislead.

Avoid "pro tuner" bins at all costs. You are unlikely to learn anything useful.

OK, avoid tuner pro bins?  I"m a bit confused on that one?  If we are using tuner pro as our bin editior, which bin should we use?

Like I said, new to tuning the Audi's, not new to tuning. 

Also, PLX WBO2......can we plug this into our ECM???

Thanks everyone for the responses :)

By "pro tuner" bins i mean tunes from professional tuners, not tunes made with tunerpro :)

Unfortunate overlap of terms.


There are ways to feed WB O2 sensors into unused inputs on the ECM. There are several threads about this in the forums here, you'll have to do a search. It requires a bit of hacking. There is no turnkey way of doing it.

I may just use the stock O2 sensor to tune.  If I were to do upgrades such as larger turbo, injectors &/or alky, then I would plug in my PLX WBO2 kit.  I plan to use the O2 mv with KR to get the best tune for my stock Quattro. If I can get close to the APR stage 1, i'm happy with that amout of power. I considered using The Devils Own Injection alky again for my Quattro, but there is no where to put the kit :)  Tight fit!!!  Anyway...

Another question.  Code 59.org is where a lot of Buick GN guys and SyTy's share bins.  So, say a guy gets a good tune for a stock truck, or specefic combo's of turbo's and injectors.  We label the bin and the mods and AFRs and such.  Share them and others can use them as a starting point.  Do we have anything like that here?  Wondering if any Audi stuff is on Code59.org?  I've yet to search for any Audi stuff on that site...it's home to me :)      I plan on doing a lot of searching soon. I hust have so many questions and you guys have been great answering them;)    Today,  I just did my CV shaft boots today on my Audi. I'll do the CV shafts in the winter.  I've got a TON of house projects this summer, hence why I just changed my CV boots.  New grease, no more chatter, so it will do for the summer.   Anyway..Man...I"m BEAT!  Been working my butt off at work/OT and the new Audi.

Crap..got off topic.....Squirl.....:)  Running on 2 hrs sleep and ready for bed.....

ON TOPIC.   Does anyone here frequent code59.org and bin sharing?  I ran a few other guys bins on my Ty.  I mixed and matched by using the compare fcn.  That did help me get to the perfect tune a lot faster than doing it completely by my self.  I did find that one tune that was "perfect" for one car is by no means perfect for another.  But for certain Combo's such as a 20g turbo and 42lb injectors, that was always nice to have a starting point.

Looking foward to doing some searching and chatting with everyone about tuning :) Sorry if I rambled, was up all night @ work, stayed up today & worked on the new car..Time to bed ;)

One thing I did not realize is that it looks like my new Audi uses a MAF sensor instead of a MAP sensor. From what I remember, the MAP sensors are much easier to figure out???   b e d t i m e  :o

did you miss that giant section that says tuned ecu files?

or this part as well:

Yep.  I looked at that thread really quick, but I've been busting my ass working on my car, house, and OT.  Just preparing for some tuning on my new to me car.   I've been burining the candle at both ends...plus insomnia :(  I slept 2 hrs and woke up...here I am.   Back to bed, but I'll be checking the fourms. 

Thanks for the info  ;)

You'll ALWAYS want to tune with a wideband if you have it. You'll just have to log it separately. ECUxPlot has a way to overlay ME7L logs with Zeitronix logs, but I dont have PLX support. I can probably add it if you want. When you are ready, send me both logs.


ME7.1 uses both MAF and MAP (technically, it is not a MAP, though,  the boost sensor is upstream of the throttle plate).

The MAF is used for fueling (and of course, calculating load, which is used everywhere in ME7), the MAP is used for boost control.

If you are unfamiliar with torque based EFI systems, you are going to want to do a lot more research before even attempting to tune ME7.

I've never tuned with MAF and MAP.  BOth of my prevous hot rods were MAP based. 

I've not been able to find an XDF file for the  2.7t tip.   Previously, I would find the XDF file on tuner pro, down load it and save it in my tuner pro XDF file.  That smiple.  Now, Code59.org has files for their own bin and matching XDF files that have been made to work together.  Am I missing something?  ME7 has a part in this XDF file?  I promise to read the ME7 file, starting today.  I just woke up and I have today off so that is a part of my plan....and a few other projects :)   

I did find a stock 2.7t tip bin 250hp, but I still am having difficulty finding an XDF file.  I'm confused on the compatible XDF file M-box.  BMW compatible XDF file?

Also, I"m not sure what you mean by "torque based systems".  My Z28 and my Vette used the Map Sensor and had no MAF sensor, however, some of the eariler years were.  I remember them using Grams/VE or something like that.  I never had to mess with the MAF tuned cars as of yet. 

Thanks for the help! 

The M-box XDF will work with an L-box file.

You are going to need to find out what box you have.

this link:

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Tuning_your_ECU

tells you to read this:

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Generations

You did read both, right?


http://s4wiki.com/wiki/ME7.1

Again, don't even DREAM of starting any ME7 tuning until you know what that phrase means :)

There are a ton of self-study guides posted on this forum.

Also you're going to want to pick up a few EFI books (general, not ME7 specific) from Amazon. I can give you a short list of recommendations if you like.

Currently reading both links you provided and yes I would like some references.  Like I said, I have a lot of experience tuning with TP.  However, my experience was simply go to TP or code59.org and grab the base bin and XDF file, load them in to TP and then connect the WBO2 to the ECM and start tuning.  Granted, I had to find which tables to start tweaking.

Here, it seems a bit more complex than what I have used in the past.  Like I said, my past few cars all used a MAP sensor, no a MAF.  I"m not even considering to do any tuning until I can go into TP, look at the tables and research what everone is donig. 
First step is to get TP working with a working XDF file and to read said links and PDF.     I just found a PDF on the Bosch Document - ME7 Description that I also plaln on reading today.

Sorry about this being moved, I just have tons of questions and I was expecting this to be like my old Code59 fourm where it was pretty simple to tune.  Grab XDF file and matching base bin, study what tables controled what and make little changes at a time.   

Needless to say I was expecting the same and I have a ton of reading to do :)

As far as my intro, I neglected to say that I am doing a 65 Shelby Cobra Replica in my shop.  Ordered my kit from factory five racing a few years back.  Slow project becasue I"m saving up for premium parts  ;D


Thank you again!

Greg Banish has some very good books:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1932494421/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1932494901/

i have a few of the popular tunes on this site converted to the tiptronic. i have tested them on my car also. if you would like them email me turbonick@live.com and i can help you out with them.

OK, I'm back...kind of. I have been on vacation a few times this summer and dealing with some political action stuff with work so I've not had time to mess with my Audi as of yet.

I am  VERY familiar with tuning, however, the NefMoto/Audi tuning platform is very different that what I have used with my GMC Typhoon/Syclone's or the GN stuff.

To tune the GMC's and GN's, I basically ran tuner pro RT for my data logging and I used Tuner Pro to edit the bin.  That's all I really needed to use.  I learned what tables did what and I stuck to a few basic areas and I became very proficient on making a good tune in a matter of short time.  Through Tuner Pro RT,  I could do a data log and look at my knock retard, timing tables, Airfuel ratios with the WBO@ plugged into the ECM and such and monitor what the car was doing on each run.  All I had to do was to use the Code59 XDF file and load my starter bin.  I could also watch what my car was doing in real time and also do data runs so I could assess certain parameters.  I started by tuning the car at part throttle with different loads.  Once I got the car tuned in part throttle, I moved to WOT.   I started with boost psi of 12 and slowly moved up to 18 psi.  increased timing till it just started to show minimal KR.  Then I would assess AFR.  If AFR off, I would either add or subtract fuel ( or back off timing).  Once that was done, I would pull timing if the KR continued.   I slowly increased boost and decreased timing by adjusting the AFR and timing tables up to 18 psi.  I think my final tune with 18 psi and no akly was with timing @ 27deg advanced on 92 octane fuel.  Once I got it running with Zero KR and max timing, I started to tune a chip with akly. 

The Audi is a bit different & it's a bit more complicated process for connecting to the ECM, data logging, and editing.  It seems that you just can't get a XDF file for TP and a tuner pro type bin & run TP or TP rt.    I recently did some youtube searches and I found some great  videos on WinOLS and I'm currently watching them when I get time.  It looks like you can actually edit the bin with this program.  I'm curious of the entire process of using NefMoto, ME7, and WinOLS.  I'm just looking for some answers and I finally got some time to myself to read here.   

I will be reading the ME7 stuff and I'm hoping someone can help me along the way.

BTW, I called one of the APR type chip companies, JHmotorsports.   They were trash talking Nefmoto.  I asked the guy on the phone what makes their chips so "special". this guy went on to totally BS me and he claimed his chips were the "best" and that they tweak 100's of parameters.  I called BS on that being a tuner with my previous cars.  I know how to make a car fast.  Hi octane, max timing with efficient boost levels and NO KR.  It's not that difficult.  I basically told him thanks for the BS answer and that I would not be spending 700 of my hard earned money on his BS sales pitch :D  Guy was an asswipe!

Thanks for your help and patience ;)

To get everything right, they are actually correct. Maybe not 100s but pretty damn close.. possibly 100+


This is true. At the end of the day there are only 3 things

1) boost
2) timing
3) fuel

Any tuner that is claiming to be faster and is unwilling to post logs of those 3 things is full of crap.

Any tuner that is claiming that their combination of the three is special is full of crap.

Tuning is just getting those where you want them, not finding the magical combination of the 3 that is "better" than anyone else.

Pro tuners like to talk crap, but I have yet to see any of them show they know more than what you can find here, or from people who truly care about tuning (and have time to actually research, and time to experiment), not cranking out product based on info you just bought from somebody else because you are under the gun to produce.