Osmosis
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
 Offline
Posts: 15
|
 |
« on: June 10, 2014, 10:41:19 AM »
|
|
|
I recently purchased a 2000 Audi 2.7T and I was floored at the price of the APR chip. $600....WOW  Neeless to say, I"m excited to find this site. I have a lot of experience of tuning with Tuner Pro. I had a 1993 stock GMC Typhoon with water injection. I had a PLX WBO2 plugged into the ECM for tuning and She ran a 12.2 @ 109 mph  I used a standard EEPROM chip with a chip burner that I would physically remove and then edit the bin, then put the bin on a physical chip, then install the chip and do a data run. I would repeat this process till I had achieved my best time of 12.2. So, that being said, the Audi software is flashing the ECM...something I have no clue as of yet how to do. I was hoping to find a thread of how to's & definitions of some of the terms and things needed to get started. I have some questions regarding Nefmoto and tuning my Audi. I plan on doing a lot of homework and using hte search button a lot, however, I woudl appreciate some help figuring out some of this stuff. I hope to contribute to this community as I did the GMC Typhoon/Sylcone/Buick Grand National fourm Bricking? How to flash? Where to find XDF files and stock bin's for my Audi. I assume you use Tuner pro to do data runs so you can look at the file to see what the car is doing..... Can I plug in a PLX WBO2 to the ECM to read readings on my Audi? Typhoon was easy to do. Audi...different animal so far ;( Best priced and best preformance cable to purchase? I found with my Typhoon that I would look at RPM, MAP values, Knock, Timing advance, O2 sensor readings and/or WBO2 to tweak the bin to get the car to max boost with max timing and ZERO KR. Once I found this combo for 20-22psi, I backed off the boost and slowly increased timing. Some do it the otherway around, low boost & increase timing. Eitherway, the goal was ZERO KR and max efficiency of the turbo. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
nyet
|
|
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 10:53:02 AM »
|
|
|
Welcome!
If you are already familiar with TunerPro you're in good shape.
See my sig for starting points.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Osmosis
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
Offline
Posts: 15
|
|
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 11:12:44 AM »
|
|
|
Thanks for the reply. I need a how to from the begining Not sure how to "flash" the ECM. Connecting takes a cable/laptop and I assume NefMoto software. Flashing I assume is loading the bin into the ECU electronically instead of the way I did on my Typhoon (burn chip in the pocket programer2 then remove & physically install into the ECM) Data run. I assume through tuner pro data log with CSV file....right? Editing via Tuner Pro....I KNOW THIS  and then loading the bin into the ECU. XDF File for the 2K Audi 2.7T and stock bin location? I" also wondering if there are any comparable APR stage 1 bins available? I"m not planing on starting there with that bin, I just want to see where they tweaked the tables and what I can do differnt or better Right now, I"m a baby trying to walk in a differnt language. Thanks for the help.....I'll be running in no time |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
nyet
|
|
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2014, 11:49:30 AM »
|
|
|
Connecting takes a cable/laptop and I assume NefMoto software.
Flashing I assume is loading the bin into the ECU electronically
yea, through OBD connector. Data run. I assume through tuner pro data log with CSV file....right?
No tuner pro logging supported. You'll want to use ME7Logger (see the tuning link in my sig) XDF File for the 2K Audi 2.7T and stock bin location?
There are several dozen(!) variants of the 2.7t bin. Again, see the tuning page on which are compatible and can be crossflashed etc. I" also wondering if there are any comparable APR stage 1 bins available? I"m not planing on starting there with that bin, I just want to see where they tweaked the tables and what I can do differnt or better Don't go there. Better to learn on your own, map by map. There are many reasons, but don't get me on that rant. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ddillenger
|
|
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 03:28:23 PM »
|
|
|
Hey Bro, I really appreciate your help!!! As for the APR stage 1 bin...I would like to look at the parametres they change to achieve the HP and torque. I absolutely LOVE the feature in Tuner Pro that allows you to compare bins. That feature alone allowed me to shave of 0.6 seconds in the quarter mile. I have no intention on running the APR bin, more for observation of what parts of the chip they messed with. I like the plug in play of the APR, but not the price. Plus, I kind of like to know what has been done to the chip....so I prefer to tune my car myself, I"m sure you understand that  While I get the allure of wanting to see what others are doing, it won't help you I'm afraid. Other than the fact that everyone does things differently, Most commercial companies tend to move and encrypt things, so disregarding the moral implications, it's still not practical. Read the S4 tuning wiki. That'll give you a good start http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
Email/Google chat:
DDillenger84(at)gmail(dot)com
Email>PM
|
|
|
|
nyet
|
|
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 03:32:47 PM »
|
|
|
Oops. accidentally edited your post rather than replying. Sorry, i've deleted it because I can't recover it. DD covered pretty much everything I said, but fwiw: more for observation of what parts of the chip they messed with. The tuning page itemizes everything most tuners change, and then some. If you want to start with a reference, perhaps look at the DIY stage 2 and stage 3 files floating around on this forum.. you'll probably also get a lot more feedback as to WHY things were done they way they were done, which you will never get from APR And since you just won't drop the topic: the APR bin you are asking for is encrpyted, and the maps moved around to obscure reverse engineering. There are also intentional red herrings in the file(s) meant to mislead. Avoid "pro tuner" bins at all costs. You are unlikely to learn anything useful. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Osmosis
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
Offline
Posts: 15
|
|
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 07:09:58 PM »
|
|
|
OK, avoid tuner pro bins? I"m a bit confused on that one? If we are using tuner pro as our bin editior, which bin should we use? Like I said, new to tuning the Audi's, not new to tuning. Also, PLX WBO2......can we plug this into our ECM??? Thanks everyone for the responses |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
nyet
|
|
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 07:50:18 PM »
|
|
|
OK, avoid tuner pro bins? I"m a bit confused on that one? If we are using tuner pro as our bin editior, which bin should we use?
By "pro tuner" bins i mean tunes from professional tuners, not tunes made with tunerpro Unfortunate overlap of terms. Also, PLX WBO2......can we plug this into our ECM???
There are ways to feed WB O2 sensors into unused inputs on the ECM. There are several threads about this in the forums here, you'll have to do a search. It requires a bit of hacking. There is no turnkey way of doing it. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Osmosis
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
Offline
Posts: 15
|
|
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2014, 01:04:25 AM »
|
|
|
I may just use the stock O2 sensor to tune. If I were to do upgrades such as larger turbo, injectors &/or alky, then I would plug in my PLX WBO2 kit. I plan to use the O2 mv with KR to get the best tune for my stock Quattro. If I can get close to the APR stage 1, i'm happy with that amout of power. I considered using The Devils Own Injection alky again for my Quattro, but there is no where to put the kit Tight fit!!! Anyway... Another question. Code 59.org is where a lot of Buick GN guys and SyTy's share bins. So, say a guy gets a good tune for a stock truck, or specefic combo's of turbo's and injectors. We label the bin and the mods and AFRs and such. Share them and others can use them as a starting point. Do we have anything like that here? Wondering if any Audi stuff is on Code59.org? I've yet to search for any Audi stuff on that site...it's home to me I plan on doing a lot of searching soon. I hust have so many questions and you guys have been great answering them;) Today, I just did my CV shaft boots today on my Audi. I'll do the CV shafts in the winter. I've got a TON of house projects this summer, hence why I just changed my CV boots. New grease, no more chatter, so it will do for the summer. Anyway..Man...I"m BEAT! Been working my butt off at work/OT and the new Audi. Crap..got off topic.....Squirl..... Running on 2 hrs sleep and ready for bed..... ON TOPIC. Does anyone here frequent code59.org and bin sharing? I ran a few other guys bins on my Ty. I mixed and matched by using the compare fcn. That did help me get to the perfect tune a lot faster than doing it completely by my self. I did find that one tune that was "perfect" for one car is by no means perfect for another. But for certain Combo's such as a 20g turbo and 42lb injectors, that was always nice to have a starting point. Looking foward to doing some searching and chatting with everyone about tuning Sorry if I rambled, was up all night @ work, stayed up today & worked on the new car..Time to bed |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Osmosis
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
Offline
Posts: 15
|
|
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2014, 01:09:48 AM »
|
|
|
One thing I did not realize is that it looks like my new Audi uses a MAF sensor instead of a MAP sensor. From what I remember, the MAP sensors are much easier to figure out??? b e d t i m e  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
k0mpresd
|
|
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2014, 01:10:41 AM »
|
|
|
Do we have anything like that here? did you miss that giant section that says tuned ecu files? or this part as well: If you want to start with a reference, perhaps look at the DIY stage 2 and stage 3 files floating around on this forum.. you'll probably also get a lot more feedback as to WHY things were done they way they were done, which you will never get from APR |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Osmosis
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
Offline
Posts: 15
|
|
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2014, 02:35:41 AM »
|
|
|
Yep. I looked at that thread really quick, but I've been busting my ass working on my car, house, and OT. Just preparing for some tuning on my new to me car. I've been burining the candle at both ends...plus insomnia I slept 2 hrs and woke up...here I am. Back to bed, but I'll be checking the fourms. Thanks for the info |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
nyet
|
|
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2014, 09:28:37 AM »
|
|
|
I may just use the stock O2 sensor to tune. If I were to do upgrades such as larger turbo, injectors &/or alky, then I would plug in my PLX WBO2 kit.
You'll ALWAYS want to tune with a wideband if you have it. You'll just have to log it separately. ECUxPlot has a way to overlay ME7L logs with Zeitronix logs, but I dont have PLX support. I can probably add it if you want. When you are ready, send me both logs. One thing I did not realize is that it looks like my new Audi uses a MAF sensor instead of a MAP sensor. From what I remember, the MAP sensors are much easier to figure out???
ME7.1 uses both MAF and MAP (technically, it is not a MAP, though, the boost sensor is upstream of the throttle plate). The MAF is used for fueling (and of course, calculating load, which is used everywhere in ME7), the MAP is used for boost control. If you are unfamiliar with torque based EFI systems, you are going to want to do a lot more research before even attempting to tune ME7. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Osmosis
Newbie
Karma: +0/-0
Offline
Posts: 15
|
|
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2014, 09:50:55 AM »
|
|
|
I've never tuned with MAF and MAP. BOth of my prevous hot rods were MAP based. I've not been able to find an XDF file for the 2.7t tip. Previously, I would find the XDF file on tuner pro, down load it and save it in my tuner pro XDF file. That smiple. Now, Code59.org has files for their own bin and matching XDF files that have been made to work together. Am I missing something? ME7 has a part in this XDF file? I promise to read the ME7 file, starting today. I just woke up and I have today off so that is a part of my plan....and a few other projects I did find a stock 2.7t tip bin 250hp, but I still am having difficulty finding an XDF file. I'm confused on the compatible XDF file M-box. BMW compatible XDF file? Also, I"m not sure what you mean by "torque based systems". My Z28 and my Vette used the Map Sensor and had no MAF sensor, however, some of the eariler years were. I remember them using Grams/VE or something like that. I never had to mess with the MAF tuned cars as of yet. Thanks for the help! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
nyet
|
|
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2014, 09:58:27 AM »
|
|
|
I've not been able to find an XDF file for the 2.7t tip.
The M-box XDF will work with an L-box file. You are going to need to find out what box you have. this link: http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Tuning_your_ECUtells you to read this: http://s4wiki.com/wiki/GenerationsYou did read both, right? Also, I"m not sure what you mean by "torque based systems".
http://s4wiki.com/wiki/ME7.1Again, don't even DREAM of starting any ME7 tuning until you know what that phrase means There are a ton of self-study guides posted on this forum. Also you're going to want to pick up a few EFI books (general, not ME7 specific) from Amazon. I can give you a short list of recommendations if you like. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:00:21 AM by nyet »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
