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Title: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 12, 2015, 12:11:42 PM My car is cutting out under high load, usually WOT. I don't know if it's misfiring or cutting fuel. It only does it sometimes. Sometimes its pulls to redline just fine.
Attached is a good pull log, two bad pulls, and my tune After looking at the logs, I noticed it's requesting a ridiculously low AFR (like 0.35) when it happens. I'm running OEM RS6 Turbos, Bosch 550cc EV14's, RS4 MAF housing. Thanks. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: ddillenger on April 12, 2015, 04:49:22 PM What air filter and intake elbow?
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 12, 2015, 05:29:42 PM I believe it's a 90mm aluminum elbow with an open element AEM dry filter. Its hooked to the 84mm RS4 housing with a reducer.
Try to ignore how dirty it is http://imgur.com/TTs8Hev I should also mention that it's not throwing any codes Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on April 12, 2015, 06:10:45 PM Likely misfires. Log them. Get a wideband and you'll likely see it there as well. Also, log nb O2 voltages, you'll probably see them there too.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 12, 2015, 06:57:04 PM Nevermind. This seems informative. The best way to find to find a misfire on a 2.7t is to read MVB ( messure Value Blocks ) in this order... 1. BLOCK 32-- ( FUELING ) adaptations should be no more / less than 10% ever ! 2. BLOCK 111 -( TURBO ) adaptations should not be more / less than 10% . If over 10% you might have a boost leak or dying N75 3. BLOCK 93-- ( CAMSHAFT ) adaptation should be never over 12%. perfect would be 4% or less. 4. BLOCK 14,15,16 ( MISFIRE COUNTER ) it should never be over 5 misfires per minute ideally. More than 55+ will set a MIL / CEL TIPS : ...If the fueling is in the negitive around -12% or lower ( I.E -13% ..,-15% ..,-25%) in MVB 32 and the turbo adaptations are over 10-12+% or more ....you have a boost leak . or a real crappy tune ;D ... ----->If you have EGT fault codes that too will give you crappy performance and missfires..<---- ... -----> the camshaft correlation timing has to be good other wise that too will give you misfires ( MVB 90 , 91, 92 , 93 ) MVB 93 is the important one. Other things that cause misfires .... injector dwell is crappy or dying injectors .... intake manifold gasket .... combie valve stuck open .... low fuel pressure .... bad fuel pressure regulator .... ***** plug gap is over .028" *****<<<<-------------!!!!!!! .... the ignition units are junk ( POS / ICU ) .... *****clogged fuel filter ***** <--------!! I hope this helps Lee .... I do have a wideband, but I didn't log it. I'll see if I can get another log with misfires and O2 voltages. Not sure why I wasn't logging misfires while trying to diagnose a possible misfire. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: ddillenger on April 12, 2015, 07:11:45 PM You can log misfires with me7logger as well.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on April 12, 2015, 10:35:48 PM Plugs, coilpacks etc. Same old misfire story.
not sure why those aren't on the list you quoted, it is by far the single most stage 3 s4 problem. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 13, 2015, 04:22:10 AM I'll check everything out as soon as I have time. I do have a set of FSI coil adapter and ICM delete cables I got off a friend cheap in case I ever had to replace the coils.
Anyone know of the cheapest place to buy OEM FSI coil packs in case that's what it is. Six OEM coils can be had from USP Motorsports for $158 shipped. Six Driveworks brand coils can be had from Advance Auto Parts for $80 shipped. Six BWD/Intermotor brand coils can be had from Advance Auto Parts for $94 shipped. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: 10101011 on April 13, 2015, 09:34:04 AM IF YOU BUY ANYTHING FOR ADVANCED AUTO PARTS YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE.!!!!. you will have nothing but problems !!!! good luck..
Lee Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on April 13, 2015, 10:27:24 AM Could also be large boost leak or DV failure
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 13, 2015, 03:05:47 PM Here's a log with much more stuff. Still unsure of issue.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on April 13, 2015, 03:11:29 PM Cyl3 misfire. No idea why it only counted one, it looks a LOT worse than a single misfire.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 13, 2015, 03:15:58 PM Cyl3 misfire. No idea why it only counted one, it looks a LOT worse than a single misfire. right, thats why I was confused. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on April 13, 2015, 03:23:38 PM Check coilpack, plug, injector. Also recheck your DVs and pressure test intake.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 13, 2015, 03:29:37 PM Check coilpack, plug, injector. Also recheck your DVs and pressure test intake. Will do. I have set of Bosch Side Fire's that I swapped out that I may throw back in. I'll move the coils around too. DV's should be good, I've got bailey's. I'll pressure test too.Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: ddillenger on April 13, 2015, 05:22:40 PM Will do. I have set of Bosch Side Fire's that I swapped out that I may throw back in. I'll move the coils around too. DV's should be good, I've got bailey's. I'll pressure test too. Whilst tuning, run BRK7E. Straight copper plugs, gapped .028. Copper conducts better than all of the fancy metals, and is better at drawing heat. The only downside is short life, but if you're smart, you should be pulling your plugs regularly DURING tuning to check for issues anyway, and replacing them once finished. THEN, use your fancy pants sidefires :P Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 18, 2015, 03:05:05 PM swapped in a set of BRK7E's, pressure tested, cleaned the MAF becasue why not. swapped coil packs around.
Absolutely no change. Still randomly just cuts hard and the logs don't seem to show misfires. I swear it's tune related or something. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 18, 2015, 05:16:54 PM Here's a new log. I think I found the issue. Desired AFR drops to like .35
I'm not sure why. Something weird here? timing off or something? Sorry about the help bubble (http://i.imgur.com/POaf1Jw.png) Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: ddillenger on April 18, 2015, 08:33:05 PM Your bank2 cam timing should be addressed. It's off.
Also, I have no idea what the fuck is going on in that log. Pull the air filter, try to log with it removed. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: Chris1982 on April 19, 2015, 11:23:08 PM Your Problem is, that bank2 camshift is not calibrated the right way. You have to get max 5 digits difference between the camshifts and getting it nearly to 0 digits. I had the same problem as well. My ignition coils and sparks were damaged every few kilometers...
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on April 20, 2015, 02:44:09 PM Any info on how i should go about fixing the cam timing? Is that just form the timing belt stretching or what?
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: 10101011 on April 20, 2015, 04:08:01 PM Not stretch. You need to loosen the cam gear bolts and have the locking bar in place. Basically you will be redoing your timing belt
Lee Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on April 22, 2015, 11:00:33 AM Also, if you have a stock intake, the accordians can collapse.
Consider getting new ones (old ones get very saggy) and/or cutting a hole in the bottom of your airbox. [ETA] Disregard, I noticed from your OP you are running open element intake Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 02, 2015, 01:20:46 PM I don't think this has anything to do with the camshift (which I have since fixed). If you look at the logs, it's requesting a ridiculously low AFR and that's when it cuts out.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: ddillenger on May 02, 2015, 02:53:24 PM Post your file.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 02, 2015, 03:12:13 PM Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 05, 2015, 09:33:56 AM No one knows what would be making it suddenly request a ridiculously low AFR?
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: ddillenger on May 05, 2015, 11:43:15 AM Add these to your logging cfg and relog:
lambts lamfa_w lambsbg_w tabgm tanslin tats_w I'm sure I'm missing some, but that's a start. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 05, 2015, 11:52:43 AM Add these to your logging cfg and relog: lambts lamfa_w lambsbg_w tabgm tanslin tats_w I'm sure I'm missing some, but that's a start. The one log I posted above (http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=8107.msg73656#msg73656) has most of those, but I'll try and get a new log up with everything. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on May 05, 2015, 11:58:47 AM Still baffled at your log as a whole
Why is your WGDC not 95 during spool? Why is your PID P 0 during spool? Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 05, 2015, 01:21:53 PM Still baffled at your log as a whole Why is your WGDC not 95 during spool? Why is your PID P 0 during spool? I have no idea... Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 08, 2015, 10:48:32 AM Yet another log. This one's real wonky. WGDC and P seem slightly more normal though. Throttle Plate Angle is 100% the entire time. No misfires.
(http://i.imgur.com/bneKbz6.jpg) (http://imgur.com/bneKbz6) Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on May 08, 2015, 10:51:19 AM Those turbos are done, or your wastegates are totally screwed.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 08, 2015, 10:53:07 AM Those turbos are done, or your wastegates are totally screwed. Why would that make it request that ridiculous AFR?Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on May 08, 2015, 10:53:33 AM EGT activity as well.
Also, get a wideband. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 08, 2015, 11:01:18 AM EGT activity as well. I have a wideband. I just didnt log it simultaneouslyAlso, get a wideband. It is NOT a hardware issue. Here's a log I just took with a different tune that does not have such an issue. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on May 08, 2015, 04:29:52 PM EGT
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 08, 2015, 04:40:16 PM EGT Can't I just disable them? I thought I had?Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on May 08, 2015, 05:27:30 PM No clue, but you'll have to compare map by map if you have a tune that works and one that doesn't.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 08, 2015, 05:45:17 PM 95% sure I found the issue. My one EGT sensor is broke. I disabled the EGT DTCs but didnt max out TABGSS and TABGSS2. I'll report back.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on May 08, 2015, 05:45:36 PM EGT.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: prj on May 09, 2015, 04:19:16 AM That does not look like a damaged EGT to me.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 09, 2015, 06:18:02 AM That does not look like a damaged EGT to me. Before I disabled the DTCs I was getting EGT intermittent codes and the logs the EGTs randomly jump from 900c to 1100c in one step and back down a couple steps later.Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: prj on May 09, 2015, 03:47:50 PM Disabling EGT's is done by 3 codewords, not disabling DTC's. That does absolutely nothing to solve the issue.
Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 09, 2015, 04:22:24 PM Disabling EGT's is done by 3 codewords, not disabling DTC's. That does absolutely nothing to solve the issue. Maxing TABGGS and TABGGS2 fixed the issue I believeTitle: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: tjwasiak on May 09, 2015, 04:41:59 PM Disabling EGT's is done by 3 codewords, not disabling DTC's. That does absolutely nothing to solve the issue. CDATR, CDATS and which one?Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 09, 2015, 04:47:55 PM CDATR, CDATS and which one? Quote If you want to disable your EGT sensors:[60] (Note that my old M-box xdf is wrong[61] for CDATR/ATS. Please use these offsets.) From the S4wiki (http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning)CDATR (0x18196) - Configuration byte diagnosis exhaust gas temperature regulation CDATS (0x18197) - Configuration byte diagnosis exhaust gas temperature sensor There is anecdotal evidence[62] that this will not allow you to completely remove the EGT sensors; keeping dead ones connected might be necessary, or: CATR (0x192CA) - Configuration byte exhaust gas temperature regulation[63] Alternately, setting both of these to their maximum (1229) may help: [64] TABGSS (0x1C514) and TABGSS2 (0x1C516) - Desired exhaust gas temperature for EGT regulation You shouldn't have to touch these, but are included here for completeness: CLAATR - Error class exhaust gas temperature regulation CLAATR2 - Error class exhaust gas temperature regulation bank 2 CLAATS - Error class exhaust gas temperature sensor CLAATS2 - Error class exhaust gas temperature sensor bank 2 Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: ddillenger on May 09, 2015, 10:37:09 PM Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 15, 2015, 04:24:03 AM That did in fact solve the issue, as my one EGT sensor was intermittently failing.
Nevermind, It's just throttle cut from overboost. Still working on the tune. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: nyet on May 18, 2015, 03:37:24 PM Nevermind, It's just throttle cut from overboost. Still working on the tune. the last log you posted showed no overboost. Title: Re: S4 w/ RS6 Turbos Issue Post by: BerkleyJ on May 20, 2015, 03:34:41 AM the last log you posted showed no overboost. Are you talking about the "DifferentTuneLog.csv"Because that's a locked down VAST tune with a few other issues including improperly coded out O2 sensors. Here's a log with the throttle cut. I think I was running a janked up KFLDRQ2 at the time. I've since moved on. (http://i.imgur.com/65RNNA0.jpg) |