NefMoto

Heres a log that i did from my E85 3.2 Turbo machine. Please tell me that you think..

1. I can se that the STFT is compensating up to 22.7% at higher RPM and LOAD

2. The Ignition looks a bit high to me at 100% load and 6700 rpm.

3. The AFR looks ok right?

Sorry to send you an off topic question, but which software are you using to present that way those logs?

The AFR looks right???? 9:1 at part throttle?

2nd

Also I have been meaning to add heat maps to ECUxPlot but still haven't found time :(

Its called MEgalog viewer its really nice i think.. I Use Torque and in that app you can add all the PID´s in the settings menu. I hav a bluetooth ELM scanner connected to the phone.. But a scanner with better sample rate would be fine..

https://www.efianalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/ (https://www.efianalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/)

Ok as I can tell of this log plot.

AFR plot: AFR should be 9.7 @ E85 fuel.. Looks like im running fet everrwhere?

IGN plot: Hmm i cant undertand exactly what happens under 100% load and 3200 rpm.. the ing is very weak.. Is that when the turbo kicks in or what? ignition adaptive adaptive?  And Is my ignition to low on E85?

STFT plot: Looks like STFT compensates very much in some areas. LTFT was disabled when i logged this.

People seem to commonly get confused with afr and alternative fuels. You still need to target something leaner, like 11.4:1 on e85.

E85 should be around 9.7 ?

Jim_coupe, I suggest you use lambda instead of afr. Stochiometric is always one, and you can start comparing from there. It's easier imho

Ignitionmap is best worked out with mbt measurements on a dyno. Knocksensors are calibrated for petrol, so you can't rely on them.

(Maybe knockfilters can be modified to better hear CF for ethanol, but I haven't really tried)

Knocking is knocking isnt it?  With E85 it doesnt knock anyway.. it just get warm.

Lambda? AFR is more accurate?

AFR is just lambda multiplied by a conversion factor.  It cannot be any more accurate than lambda.

jim, your sensors are likely calibrated for gasoline at 14.7:1.

Lambda 1 on an E85 scale is right around 9.7 yes.. if you're logging in an E85 converted scale then you are ok... Most don't and deal with Lambda or the normal Gasoline scale AFR.

And i get the impression he is using factory sensor data and or a wideband with a gas scale and therefore is crazy rich.

Well I hope not.. They are calibrated towards fresh AIR at factory 21:0

You are misunderstanding...

We're not talking about free air calibration... We're taking about YOUR logs and the conversion factor you are using.

Most logging software reading AFR is on a gasoline scale.  So unless you have modified the conversion factor to measure in the E85 AFR scale you are not interpreting the O2 readings correctly.

The ECU/O2 sensor doesn't read in anything but Lambda.  The conversion is done outside by whatever software you are using to log with.

Similarly so, if you have an external wideband sensor, most are setup to read in Gasoline AFR scale.  Running E85 will not magically change the scale, the wideband has to have an option for you to change the internal scaling.

In the end it is not necessary anyway.  With E85 you simply target the same AFR as on a gasoline scale anyway. Lambda 1= 14.7 gasoline 0.8 lambda = 11.76 gasoline, etc, etc.

Are you being dense on purpose to mess with us? LISTEN, lambda is lambda, different fuels have different scales. cool after market gauges and loggers can be setup to run different scales. if you did not do this you are reading a gas scale and super rich.

everyone is repeating themselves. when you free air calibrated your sensor, it did not set it up for the FUEL type. I never change this, because it just confuses people. Use whatever fuel you wish, tune for common afr for your setup.

holy crap, lol

No. Ping sound is different with alcohol, and knock filters are calibrated for petrol "pitch"

No im not being dense.. Im trying to learn about what i have misunderstood because I have been mislead by people who have claimed that these logs are OK. But now im not really sure... And even more uncertain about that now. And you could be very correct that im running really rich.. That will explain alot!

About knocking with E85.. ive been told by a tuner that tunes VEMS systems that E85 is very hard to detect knocking if even at all.. ?  True/False?

Im gonna take her for a rind and log Lambda.. I´ll be back

true on e85 not really ever "knocking"

wasnt trying to be rude, it just felt like the thread was going in circles.

get your afr monitoring systems specs checked 100% so you can make sure you are interpreting the data correctly.

No, not knock as such, but you can register it. Take a pair of "det-cans" and listen when engine is close to knock limit and you will hear CF clearly.

oh so CF can be heard now :D this gets better and better. technic, please keep going, I'm gonna grab some pop corn :D

Wtf... not CFs ::) I should avoid having VCDS spreadsheets open at the same time as writing posts. I should PayPal you some money for the popcorn

Was loggin some tonight.. Fronted a deer...  :(   I got my logs though.. I´ll upload my Lambda log tomorow... after ive called insurance company.. :-\

Only Lambda i could find in Torque was "Commanded Equivalent Ratio".

In Torque I also discovered that i have slected E85 as fuel.. So  i think the AFR is correct.. It cant possible run Extremely rich.. Otherwise i would smell that.. Car runs pretty good.. But i was just uncertain about AFR in higher load area..

I'm gonna put this out there and say before you go any further, get actual logging software working.  Hell, VCDS is better than this crap!

Why is this Crap?

Because you've not got any of the variables you need to get a good log.

What is your requested lambda? Actual?  Trims?  Where is it getting lambda from?  EGT?  Modelled EGT?

Also, lambda values of greater than 1.0?  How?  Even then, lambda of 0.9 until high revs, then goes back to 1.0.. The log is wrong, or we're still going round in circles dude.

Im trying to learn this and you say this is "crap" with out any explanation why?.. And now you say again im going in circles when im trying to find out things here.. Please have a banana stress down my friend. I know VCDS but right now im trying this log tool. And if you this its crap the exaplain whats wrong with it if i want to log AFR IGN and STFT?.

Lambda 2.0 is a result of enginebreake.

Now.. With the knowledge that I now know that my tool logs AFR correct (with E85) I also know more in detail how my AFR kinda looks like in reality.

I agree, you need to get to a proven logging software before going any further here.

Use ME7logger if you can, VCDS if not otherwise (we still don't know what you're even driving/tuning is it a VAG product?).

The 0-100 load scale doesn't tell us anything either.  According to your log, the car is running Lambda 1 most of the time, and just touching 0.9 at only the MAX load of 100 (whatever that is?).

Get proper logs, post fuel trims, post your file if you want or snippets of the fueling changes...

Certainly there isn't much anyone can do to help you with the information you have provided this far to be honest.

The amount of samples that Torque can provide is less than VCDS and ME7Logger.  

You need to log actual and requested fuelling so you can see how far off you are.  You have no real need to know STFTs in comparison to knowing the rest of the usually logged values.  

If you're tuning seriously - and by that I mean not really deviating from the OE file - you need a good logger, and Torque isn't that.  You can monitor any variable you require with ME7Logger.

Not only that, you're not even sure yourself if the variable you have logged is the correct one, and neither am I.  If you're logging fuel, you need to log actual and requested lambda so that you can see how far off you are so you can adjust from there.  You can also log the actual sensor voltage, so you can apply your own correction factor to produce E85 lambda.

Ignition is even more complicated.  You can log current ignition timing, but is that post or pre correction?  Can you log correction factors with Torque?  What about the cam switch-over point?  Can you log the position of the cam with Torque so that you can see the dip in timing and fuelling?

With ME7Logger, it filters the results, so that engine breaking isn't included.  You want one clean pull from 2k to the limiter, and not including when you let off.  How do you know that the table you have posted contains the results from your WOT pull and not from when you let off?  The lower sections could represent small amounts of throttle/load and engine braking.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm trying to help.  The Torque app is good for generic fault clearing, but not logging. Sort ME7Logger and you'll have a much more pleasant experience.  

Thaks for answers guys.. Ill try Me7 logger then. With what program are you analyzing yout logs in.. what format does Me7logger give you?

Comes out on CSV, use ECUxPlot to display all the data, its fantastic!  Well documented on here! :)

See my sig.

Also, this sticky

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4094.0title=


And all of the stickies here

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?board=15.0

In fact, you'll find just about EVERY discussion about logs is from ME7L

Im gonna try that.. Ill read the manual.. But it seems a bit complicated..  To bad VCDS logs wasnt compatible with MegalogViwer.

VCDS is useless for tuning.

It's not complicated.  Set up a logger file with a cross or whatever the convention is (I forget) with the variables you want to log, run a bat file and let it log.

It's honestly not hard! :)