NefMoto

What sorts of clever things can we do with the ESP button?

Is there a ram location/variable for it in the ECU? How does it interact with torque intervention and ASR?

I had someone look into this for me and he stated that the ECU does not know the state of the ASR module. I wanted to use the button for enabling/disabing features but it doesn't seem possible.

Aren't ASR and ESP two completely different systems? They work similarly, but I only see ESP buttons on 01+ B5 and C5 cars, and I've only seen ASR on early FWD cars. I have almost no first hand experience in how the ASR in fwd Audis work, but I know that the ESP in my 01 A6 can directly limit engine torque output relative to steering angle, wheel speed, etc. It also shuts off cruise control when certain limits are exceeded. If APR can swap maps with the cruise control buttons, surely something can be done with the ESP button...

If the ESP button runs through the ABS, and not the ECU, could we set it to disable our ESP and ABS (like the old Quattros)? It snows where I live, and I hate my ABS, I also hate it when my car beeps to tell me I've pulled the fuse...

The ESP button is not connected to the ECU, but to the ESP/ASR controller.
The ECU gets periodic messages via CAN from the ESP system. In these messages
the requested torque limits are contained and the ECU can see if the ESP wants to
intervent. But there is no flag contained which shows wether ESP is disabled or enabled.
So not really an option to use the ESP button for map switching.
If you log all ESP messages on the CAN bus with ESP on and off, you can check this.

Best bet is to just fully disable asr and esp in the "brake controller" and recode for abs only via vcds "0004097" ASR FRONT MK60.

I had some issue with asr still active when disabled by the switch, asr and esp are still active in the ecu, limiting high rpm and torque

Would be pretty awesome to have map switching with the asr or esp button, Like the APR cruise stalk feature.

ASR is in the ABS controller. It uses the wheel speed sensors to detect wheel spin and applies the brakes to the wheel that is spinning at least 100rpms faster than the others. I read somewhere that leaving it enabled will get you about a half second faster time at the drag strip.

That's a bunch of croc. At least the way it comes mapped from factory

With this method does the ESP light stay lit on the dash all the time?

I never got recoding to work on ME7.1 (2.7t)

No light will be functional on the dash and non operational switch, recoding brake controller will effectively disable asr and esp

Still like the thought of map switching via asr or esp switch

Please make note of your original coding before making changes to the brake controller for abs only, incase you ever want to switch it back. my original coding was 0021505 and then recode for abs only to 0004097

I'm interested in doing this on my 01.5 S4 as I'm tired of always hitting the ESP button when I hop in the car.  What vehicle did you recode yours on?

01 mkiv gti. aww motor. DL ecu.

if you visit the rs wiki under abs controller, they would have the calculations to correctly recode your specific controller for abs only.

Like I mentoned above my original coding with abs, asr and esp was 0021505, deducted the asr and esp drops it down to 0004097 abs only

This was a simple solution for time being, maybe different methods on here, but I am still new to learning tuner pro

As far as I know this CANNOT be done on ME7.1.x

But if it is, I'd LOVE confirmation that it works.

ECU

06611

Get an ABS/ESP module from a 2000 car for all of 20 bucks.

Whoa, is it that easy?

ETA: what about EDL? Still have to pull fuse 42?

if it is any help here is my controller information

Address 03: ABS Brakes       Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.LBL
   Controller: 1C0 907 379 D
   Component: ASR FRONT MK60      0103
   Coding: 0004097
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 2B29B58DCA1D
No fault code found.

I really don't want to convert to a 2000 ABS module as they fail very commonly with the flashing abs and brake light.  Actually I don't think I've ever been in a 2000 s4 that didn't have a failed ABS module lol.

Blake, I'm not talking about the ABS module, I'm talking about the abs/esp CONTROLLER under the rear seat.

Nye: Yes, it's that easy. That's why you get the 2000 module, it controls the ABS/EDL without burdening you with ESP.

still have to pull fuse 42 to disable edl though yea?

there was some thread a while back where somebody was trying to read/write the flash on these... did it ever get anywhere?

should be able to recode and deduct for edl aswell

I am not fully certain if this method would affect the steering angle sensor / calibration. with the abs only recoding.

I do have a bit of a pull to the right side but that is launching and above 5000 rpm. I am still getting a bit of wheel hop to the right. Though I still have to get the tracking done after just replacing control arms, dog mount, and lt. rt mounts to energy poly urethane bush

I think I read it in the Bentley publishers repair manual for golf ,GTI,Jetta. I agree with you about the way it is mapped. I'm sure they were referencing a stock vehicle and I should have mentioned that. It would be nice if it were tuneable. I think it would make for some great launch control and better handling in the turns. When I leave it on and accelerate hard enough to brake traction or spin too much off the line it hits the brakes so hard I fly forward in my seat a little and recovers poorly at best. If it could be smooth about it I think it would work well. Multistage ASR is used in the Audi TTRS racecar so maybe someone could figure it out for older controllers. I thought about trying to pull a bin off my controller but thats as far as I made it. Is it even possible using nefmoto? I have too many questions and not enough knowlage. I imagine it would be like finding maps using WinOLS but who knows what they are suppossed to look like and all that.

Every time I would try to merge or pull out fast from a dead stop ASR would kick in on and I would lose all power while the gas pedal was pinned to the floor my 12v GTI. Every time that happened I would sh*t myself.

There is no way on earth it would help you on 1/4 mile times no matter how bad your tires are or how bad of a driver you are.

I can confirm the ESP button it has nothing to do with the ECU, at least on the ECUs I've seen until now...
Regarding to the disabling the ESP, pulling the fuse will disable the EBD and no brake balance will be available;
The only way I've found is to put a switch on the "earth" (black cable) of the "yaw rate sensor" (doesn't know if the translation is ok),
the ESP warning light will be ON but everything else should work properly.
Regarding to ABS I've used the same trick on one of the front wheel speed sensors,
just put a switch on it and you will have no ABS\ASR\ESP but the EBD will be still active!! :D

I know the feeling. Same thing with my AWP GTI. That's what I'm talking about though. If there was some way to control how "hard" ASR kicks in. Make it so it engages the brakes precise enough to actually control wheel spin instead of it's current performance during attempted hard acceleration.

I'm curious if anyone has any insight about a way through recoding or tuning to disable ESP and EDL functions without disabling ABS on the 01.5+ audi s4?

With control module identification number 1C0 907 379 C, 1C0 907 379 J, 1C0 907 375 C, 1C0 907 375 J,
Engine
Engine code
Vehicle type
Code number

1.8 ltr.
AWD; AWW; AWP
Front wheel drive
04097

1.9 ltr. TDI
ALH
Front wheel drive
04097

2.0 ltr.
AEG; AVH; AZG
Front wheel drive
04097

2.8 ltr.
AFP
Front wheel drive
04097

---

Table for ABS/EDL/ASR, coding
With control module identification number 1C0 907 379 D, 1C0 907 375 D, 1C0 907 375 K

Engine
Engine code
Vehicle type
Code number

1.8 ltr.
AWD; AWW; AWP
Front wheel drive
18945

2.8 ltr.
AFP
Front wheel drive
18945

The 3 codes are for all models having the ITT Mark 20 IE Controller
ABS only =03504
ABS and EDL=13504
ABS+EDL+ASR =13204

Can someone explain what KLDMASRL does please?

I think it limits ASR per rpm and load

I read up on GGCASR in the FR but even using Google translate I'm not clear with what the message is. I looked at the schematics, there are alot of symbols that aren't familiar and I'm not finding a legend anywhere.

I have the address for this in a HSbox

KLDMASRL, start address: 101D9, X-axis: 101D4, 5 x 1, map factor:0.390625, X-axis factor:40

Which functional block are you referring to? I can take a peek. All of the logical elements are defined at the start of the FR

Maybe we can start tracing the whole process?

It's an additive to the CAN signal.

Are you having a problem with torque intervention?

I'd like to disable ASR

This intervenes via the torque model. I remember finding a solution, but showed no intervention in any logs, so I decided to leave it alone.

no intervention problems, I'm wanting to tweek ASR instead of just disabling it.

Curious as to how you would like to "tweak" asr. I was under the assumption it is located in the brake controller and commanded by the brake controller. Not sure if there is much configuration to be had unless you mean by tweak the set time / rpm it would activate.

My experience disabling asr via recode brake controller cleared up many symptoms, such a not being able to reach highest rev limit without interance, aswell launching is much smooth and no hesitation off the line.

it is in the ABS controller. In my experience with ASR, especially when trying to launch off the line, it slams the brakes so hard to stop the wheel spin that the engine bogs and then ECU kills the power. If you leave it @ WOT its like you are riding a bucking bronco as power comes back in and out while wheels spin then get stopped. Sometimes it engages and the traction light blinks repeatedly as I roll forward a few feet before the engine gets power back and does it all over again.. I wish to be able to keep it @ WOT and ASR slowly engage brakes to the wheel with most wheelspin to slow it down instead of stopping it. I want ASR to control where the load gets distributed during wheelspin instead of just stopping the wheelspin all together but also keep the wheels as close to the threshold of braking traction as possible without crossing over too much. you know.. true Anti Slip Regulation...

I have noticed that using different brake pads change the performance of ASR. A stock compound pad or one for high durability keep ASR way numb compared to more aggressive pads like for racing or even high performance street pads. I've used hawk brand and it sucked. R1 kevlar pads and it sucked.. napa brand oem pads were as expected and Everwear or something like used some super long durability pads from Advance auto. They had a 2 year free replacement with unlimited mileage. ASR worked better than oem.

I also installed the larger diameter Audi TT rotors to my GTI and ASR seems to have improved somewhat again. I think because they are heavier.

I'm sure there is a way to hack the controller but don't know if the ABS pump itself is capable of performing like this. It might could only be an on/off kinda deal. I think the pump would have to be able to operate sequentially so that amount of pressure applied to the brakes is adjustable.

Went digging and found this. http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/msd/downloads/software/bremssysteme_1/RaceABS_1310_Setup.exe

...too bad the needed cable to use it is around $1200

I went ahead and installed it to check it out and it looks like after it reads the current settings it makes it so ABS and ASR fully adjustable.

If only I could hack one of those Chinese obd cables to work with this..

So you really think software intended for use on Bosch Race ABS could be used on your stock ABS system????

wishful thinking or something :-\  I found it, got all exited and didn't read further..  I guess I could purchase the BM ABS kit for like 6000+ bucks and get what I want...lololol

Using the changeable parameters in the software as an example though, I still think there are some things that can be changed for the better in the stock ABS units. Somebody just has to figure out how to do it. I would if I could but I don't know where to start.

I had the same symptons as you describe "when trying to launch off the line, it slams the brakes so hard to stop the wheel spin that the engine bogs"

When it did engage, the traction light blinks repeatedly.

When I recoded the brake controller for "ABS only" it eliminated the "slamming and bog down" aswell no light on the dash and non functional ASR switch.

I have steel braided lines to all four brake calipers which elimiates the spungy feel in the pedal and improved braking power. of course I flushed the system, put new fluid and re-bleed the whole system for air, along with the clutch master and slave cylinder. As recently had those items apart for fresh 02J transmission swap, which I wish now I invested in 02M, but with the 02J I like B&M short shifter with the reverse lockout, which is not available for 6-speed, with Sachs stg2 228mm flywheel and clutch kit. All other transmission hardware is new, nuts, bolts, wiring, etc.

I have no slipping in anyway on the clutch or gas pedal with the ABS recoded for ABS only and now have no symptons such as you described. Everything grabs and performs well with a good tuning. A bigger brake rotor and caliper size would be my next option aswell, vented and slotted rotors and bigger pin kit for the calipers.

I would like to give that adjustable ABS sw that you found a try when I have some free time to do so and will report back if I find any other ways to mess around with ASR system in the brake controller.

As far as i can tell this does not apply to the 2.7t

not sure what the 2.7t cars get but the mk60 abs system has different softcoding than the mk20 iirc.

I put a custom "closer" ratio gear set in an EHA 02j case with Wavtrac for my GTI. I installed a Neuspeed short shift arm and custom gate selector arm(I forget the name of the company but they are based in Canada) on top the tranns. The Neuspeed part reduces foreward/backward shift lever travel 40%ish IIRC and the custom gate selector arm shorten the side to side travel 30%. I have the B&M knock off Ebay special short shift lever and can't complain...for 25 bucks shipped. lol So add I think another 20% less in shift lever movement to the total because of the shift lever itself. yes, its VERY short but became "notchy" compared to using the stock parts. I'm satisfied with the way it shifts but there may be some fine adjusting of the cable that could be done to smooth out the "notchiness" somewhat most likley. Also I want this instead.. http://vimeo.com/2782828 

I don't need a 6th gear as I don't drive on the highway much and if I needed to I could swap out 5th gear for one out of an 02j for a tdi without dropping the tranny in about 15mins and be good to go on a road trip. (02j that come on the tdi engines came with like a .71ish 5th gear)

It's like a $2000 project just to get the used parts necessary for the 02m swap.. tranny, axles, spindles, new hardware to bolt it all up etc... not to mention the extra cost of the Wavtrac for that tranns..( I won't ever go without a Wavtrac in any car EVER again..just sayin... :P) also it adds weight to the vehicle...at least its "low center of gravity" weight..

AFAIK the B&M short shift lever will fit the 6 speed, its the "short shifter" gear/gate selector arm assembly that sits on top the tranns is what's not interchangeable.

nyet, the only solution I found for ESP in my '01 was to grab the ABS pump and harness from a '00 B5 parts car; 1.8, 2.8, S4 doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't have ESP they're all the same (save for some minor pin swapping in the kick panel plugs depending on donor car motor).

Now, wiring it into your car is a challenge. Remove seats, trim, carpet, and the dash if you're feeling adventurous. The ABS w/ESP harness is much bigger and more complicated, obviously. But the hardest part of both removal and installation is fishing the end of the harness through the firewall, as there are clips holding the harness in place that are nearly impossible to reach.

IIRC, I also ended up using the two hard lines from the donor car's master cylinder to the ABS pump as well.

I guess the other option would be to hack the ABS/ESP controller under the back seat to defeat ESP and EDL, and make bias adjustable  ;D

ugh. sounds like more trouble than it is worth

but thanks for the info!