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Author Topic: MAP sensor Scaling in Eurodyne (4 bar)  (Read 15902 times)
cypresser
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« on: April 12, 2016, 06:10:43 AM »

I have found this:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3027.msg29814

However, I am not seeing how to do this in Eurodyne.

I have a BEA ecu (2003 Audi TT 225 quattro).

I am looking to swap to a 4 bar sensor. Any help or points in the right direction would be awesome. I already have Eurodyne/Maestro 7 (5.1.4 as of this mornings update) and the power tap cable etc.

Yes I have emailed Chris Tapp btw- and called USP, USP wouldn't give me a straight answer- and said they couldn't put Chris Green on the phone.

Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 06:15:40 AM by cypresser » Logged
adam-
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 06:14:01 AM »

ASM hacks.
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cypresser
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 07:05:54 AM »

ASM hacks.

I have no clue what that means. Can you give more descriptor to that reply please?
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nyet
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 10:02:29 AM »

I have no clue what that means. Can you give more descriptor to that reply please?

You have to actually modify the ECU code, not just the maps.

You won't be able to do that in Eurodyne.
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cypresser
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2016, 11:11:16 AM »

You have to actually modify the ECU code, not just the maps.

You won't be able to do that in Eurodyne.

What method do you recommend to do this?

By having the ECU flashed by eurodyne, will this remove that scaling edit every time I edit the fuel maps etc my loading a new file? In that every time I flash a new file I will then have to edit the new code without eurodyne ( using your methodolgy to edit for the higher voltage sensor), to make sure the new sensor is reading correctly?

Can I use the flash cord "power tap" I received from Chris tapp of eurodyne to flash the ECU with whatever i use to edit to tell it to communicate with the new sensor?

Is there any other way around all this nonsense?

Thank you so much for the reply.
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adam-
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2016, 11:17:20 AM »

Yes and yes.  Your sensor voltage is the same, it is just capable of reading more pressure. 

It is massively complicated.  There's a thread on here about it; you need to know ASM (assembly language), decompiling and compiling again and debugging.  It's not touched on much here as there isn't that many people that have the ability to take it on.
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cypresser
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2016, 12:06:40 PM »

Yes and yes.  Your sensor voltage is the same, it is just capable of reading more pressure. 

It is massively complicated.  There's a thread on here about it; you need to know ASM (assembly language), decompiling and compiling again and debugging.  It's not touched on much here as there isn't that many people that have the ability to take it on.


Do you have a link for the thread?

Thank you.
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nyet
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2016, 12:10:57 PM »

The one linked in YOUR OP Tongue

If you are truly interested, you'll want to ditch Eurodyne completely and learn to tune without it.
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cypresser
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2016, 08:21:11 PM »

What about runnning a standalone boost controller such as this one?


https://torqbyte.com/products/torqbyte-cm5-lt


correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this override the manifold absolute pressure sensor even though we can only read 22 PSI? Or does that not even matter that I can only read such amount because of the manual boost controller? Or does this not side step it all and I am wrong in my thoughts?
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2016, 08:44:35 PM »

Youll want to entirely ditch the stock ecu in that case. ME7 does not expect some other entity to be controlling boost, nor does it like you bouncing off the pressure sensor limit.
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cypresser
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2016, 09:29:23 PM »

Youll want to entirely ditch the stock ecu in that case. ME7 does not expect some other entity to be controlling boost, nor does it like you bouncing off the pressure sensor limit.

Can you explain more in depth? What you are saying doesn't make sense to me.

If you read through this user manual, it appears that it somehow bypasses the me7 ecu to allow a 4 bar map sensor (that is sold with it) to be used.

On top of that, an lcd screen can be wired in to control boost manually inside the cabin.

On top of that it can control the fuel pump within the software that it comes with.

And also, something else I plan on using in the future, it is also a water meth controller.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0810/3325/files/Torqbyte_CM5_User_Guide.pdf

Correct me if I am wrong here, but this looks like it very well may solve multiple problems, including the map sensor issue.

You don't have to read the entire manual if you simply ctrl- f for Map sensor, it will bring you to the point where it references these points.
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adam-
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2016, 01:08:06 AM »

The whole point of an ECU is to provide control.  By removing this control and running more boost with an MBC, the ECU has NO IDEA WHATSOEVER of what boost is running (it only sees say 21psi) and fuels accordingly (based on this knowledge).  Instead, you're running more.  Your fueling and timing are only correct until you reach the limit.  Once you go over, you're going blind.
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cypresser
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2016, 04:49:19 AM »

The whole point of an ECU is to provide control.  By removing this control and running more boost with an MBC, the ECU has NO IDEA WHATSOEVER of what boost is running (it only sees say 21psi) and fuels accordingly (based on this knowledge).  Instead, you're running more.  Your fueling and timing are only correct until you reach the limit.  Once you go over, you're going blind.

I agree to a point.

All the fuel maps would have have to be enriched to a point where it is scaled as if you are running the amount of boost you are actually running as well as timing etc.

I don't see how this would be going blind, you can still datalog and run EGT, AIT, AFR, Boost, and knock gauges in the cabin to tell you what everything is at. You can even set up warning lamps/sounds with the gauges to indicate something is past what it should be so you don't have to constantly stair at the gauge pods while driving.

Please correct me, however I don't see how this is a "wrong" way of doing things. Regardless, I am going to see what I can do to play around with the NefMoto software etc seeing that if I want the ecu to do all the work and pay less money (400 bucks is still not cheap in comparison) I should have gone this route in the first place. Honestly I think that eurodyne - based on my findings here is false advertising as it says it is a one stop shop for tuning, it is not. It is not a replacement for a stand alone as a lot of people are saying and as it makes it sound like...

I still don't get how Chris Green of USP Motorsports was able to run this pas at 30 psi without changing either the controller as I have posted or changing out the map sensor. It is pretty false advertising if they say it was done as Eurodyne is currently. If there is a map that is already been adjusted for a 4 bar sensor then why doesn't Chris Tapp make that readily available to download right away- or make that an option that YES I am running a 3- or 4 bar sensor.... and then the map simply changes, it really would not be a lot of work in the long run.

http://www.eurodyne.ca/usp-motorsports-mk4-jetta-gli-w-ie-cams-on-the-dyno-making-601whp/

Hi xxx,
Thanks for your email. CM5/CM5-LT do support PID boost control (which would allow you to relieve the Me7 of this duty) but this feature is not supported by our TorqTune PC software. It will be in a few months and it was a while ago, but the users found it too difficult to play with the P I and D values so we needed to take a step back and work on releasing a simple wizard people can use to get up and running quickly without getting a PhD in PIDs.
Having said that everything you noted is correct except that the CM5-LT cannot drive a fuel pump. Only a CM5 can drive a TTRS pump in addition to a W/M pump.
However, I would be surprised if Eurodyne would not be able to help you with getting a 4-bar to work with your Meastro package. Honestely, your best bet would be to persist in trying to get a hold of Chris at Eurodyne and get his take on the best way to do this.
Let me know if you need any additional details on the CM5/CM5-LT.
Alex
Torqbyte.com
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 05:05:25 AM by cypresser » Logged
adam-
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2016, 05:40:49 AM »

If there is a map that is already been adjusted for a 4 bar sensor then why doesn't Chris Tapp make that readily available to download right away- or make that an option that YES I am running a 3- or 4 bar sensor.... and then the map simply changes, it really would not be a lot of work in the long run.
Because it is not just one map.  It's massive amounts of work.  The original assembly code needs editted all over; scalers editted.  It's not as simple as you think. Sad
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2016, 05:48:23 AM »

I agree to a point.

All the fuel maps would have have to be enriched to a point where it is scaled as if you are running the amount of boost you are actually running as well as timing etc.

The ECU does not read more than 2550mbar. You can not rescale for more. 2550mbar is 65535 and it is a 16 bit value. End of story.
If it goes over that the ECU is blind. It will put the same fuel for 2550mbar, 3000 mbar, 4000 mbar etc. It will also run the same timing.
A standalone boost controller will never to any decent degree work with ME7 either.

What we did on here was double the scaling limit to 5120 mbar absolute. This took a long time to do the first time.
It still takes a long time to do for every file, at least a day for me, and I am one of the original authors of the mod.

So please, do not waste time typing up walls of useless text. Instead try to read more.

P.S.
No one on here cares about eurodyne or maestro. You won't get help here with that, stop trying.
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