Been trying to figure out best timing for running e85  and read somewhere here that kfzw should be set close to kfzwop for me7.  Problem for me is I don't think I know kfzwop for my m5.92 AEB.


I am thinking I should estimate based upon ME7 files what the equivalent KFZWOP timing values would be for my AEB and tune to approach these values, bad idea?
This is shown below. I don't really know how the ms loads for my maps correspond to the %loads in the me7 maps but I figured they probably represent the same info for scaling purposes.

If anyone has a good kfzw map for 100% e85 on an AEB would very much appreciate seeing the values.  Im all stock except for DV and big injectors.

Thanks for whatever info and advice you can share.

Thanks for info,  did you always increase the timing over the entire map?  Did your lambada change much from a 93 tune?

Part I'm really struggling with is how the kfzwop values are so skewed from kfzw base values, not  just more advanced. 

I'm interested in the kfzwop values because I think they represent MBT and something close to what e85 timing should be.  Can someone confirm this for me?

I can start off slowly bumping up timing but I'm gonna struggle knowing if I've added too much without a billion logs of rpm. timing and load.  I'm scouring the inter web to find a dyno tuned kfzw map for e85 I can use as a guide.




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With E100 you can go next to 9° plus advance in high load/RPM ... in mid range 6°...in low load /RPM areas somethig between 3 and 6° works great...

KFZWOP is optimal for gasoline, Ethanol burn slower and shall have more advance to work good... you can use it as a start point, but at end will notice values greater than KFZWOP work better... something like 3° plus entire range at least.

Dont´forget to raise KFZWOP to not fall at engine torque monitor issues...

Thanks for the info, both of you.  I guess I will start with setting my KFZW a few% lower than my inferred KFZWOP AEB map and try to get my timing close to Jims in the load areas and then begin the logging and tweaking.

Thanks for clarify that !

There is no need touching OP at all. You can ad about 3-6 deg on E85 allover the range
One thing here is really importen and it is you do not need to log EGTs or knock. It is pointless n wrong when tuning E85
What you need to do is
Start at oem timing values. Ad 2 deg and LOG!!!
Ad 2 deg again and LOG!!
As long it is making Torque and is faster - ad timing. When it start making less TQ at timing raise - you are done.
Dont get gready here. Take it easy and know your Ethanol content.

KFZW and KFZW2 are used cam (VVT) position

E85 will give you much lower temperature than gasoline... and is related more with lambda values (BTS stuff), point is the higher EGT will give you the best torque mantaining lambda at same value.

For example, Up TSi (MED17.5.21) here in Brasil uses E100 and even in BTS never goes down lower than 0,95 lambda (when running E100, witg gasoline it´s something close to 0,75 lambda)...even in high load, RPM and prolongued time as it never reach temperature to mel anything...


Log EGT to achieve best troque values - OR as said by mocke just start raising advance till get best torque values... Keep lambda at a secure point and after found the "best" advance you may want to deal with lambda and see what happens...

KFZWOP is never used to timing as said by nyet, it´s a theorical value for optimal advance (FOR GASOLINE) if not knock limited...   E85 timing will ALLWAYS be higher than this...

It seems to me there is some confusion here about how E85 works.

E85 (measured 85% ethanol content, to be specific) is extremely knock resistant.  EGT doesn't mean anything when tuning E85, either.  EGT does not indicate how close you are to MBT.

With E85 your goal is to move your ignition advance towards MBT (maximum brake torque), but not mechanically damage the engine with an ignition event that occurs BEFORE top dead center.   As soon as you advance past MBT, torque output declines because that energy is wasted on slowing a rising piston that has not yet hit top dead center.   The engine fights itself.

That is how you break hard parts with E85 - combustion before the piston reaches top dead center.  The difference between gasoline and E85 is damaging combustion events won't happen on their own with E85 because it simply does not combust on its own.  YOU will cause the damaging ignition event by pushing your timing advance past MBT, causing the ignition event to occur before top dead center.  It won't get too hot, ping, and then turn inside out.

You will not be able to properly tune E85 for maximum power without instrumentation for combustion analysis and measuring cylinder pressures.  Anyone who tells you otherwise does not understand how E85 works.